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> Solving climate change can be as simple as getting a carbon price adopted. Such a solution cannot work, as long as we have a growth-based economy. The fact i

> Solving climate change can be as simple as getting a carbon price adopted. Such a solution cannot work, as long as we have a growth-based economy. The fact is that economists have long regarded natural resources as infinite, and their models are conceived accordingly. Infinite growth is by definition incompatible with a finite planet. Until we have come up with a new, finite economic model (which means also a profound change to our way of living), I'm afraid there's no easy solution to the climate crisis.

jariel 7y ago
"Such a solution cannot work, as long as we have a growth-based economy. The fact is that economists have long regarded natural resources as infinite" This is a canard: the vast majority of 'growth' does not depend on natural resource extraction, and economists are quite aware that some resources are theoretically finite - but technology not only makes previously 'useless' materials 'useful' but increases the 'yield' makes better use of current material, and discovers new ways to extract material. For example, we were supposed to hit 'peak Oil' in the 1970's but extraction methods have improved such that vastly more Oil is available. The 'tar sands' in Canada and Venezuela for example were 'useless' 40 years ago, but given some price point and prevalence of specific technologies, they represent massive pools of fossil fools, the largest on earth on par with Saudi. The most disconcerting part of 'growth' is not resource extraction really it's population growth and the net per capita impact each individual has on the Earth. We can have growth in the quality of so many goods without externalities, but when 5B previously poor people on planet earth want to burn as much fossil fuel as is done in the modern world ... then we have trouble.
johnsimer 7y ago
We can adapt to a green and infinite model - solar energy is effectively infinite - assuming we adapt before catastrophe
- godelski 7y ago
  What do you mean by solar energy being infinite? There's a clear limit to how much energy the sun outputs. If we had high efficiency collection it would last us for awhile. But I think a lesson to learn from all this is that no resource is unlimited and it's better to recognize those limitations and prepare a mitigating well ahead of time rather than when we're in crisis. Though lack of sufficient solar energy (because high energy demands) is not likely to be catastrophic.

jariel 7y ago

"Such a solution cannot work, as long as we have a growth-based economy. The fact is that economists have long regarded natural resources as infinite" This is a canard: the vast majority of 'growth' does not depend on natural resource extraction, and economists are quite aware that some resources are theoretically finite - but technology not only makes previously 'useless' materials 'useful' but increases the 'yield' makes better use of current material, and discovers new ways to extract material. For example, we were supposed to hit 'peak Oil' in the 1970's but extraction methods have improved such that vastly more Oil is available. The 'tar sands' in Canada and Venezuela for example were 'useless' 40 years ago, but given some price point and prevalence of specific technologies, they represent massive pools of fossil fools, the largest on earth on par with Saudi. The most disconcerting part of 'growth' is not resource extraction really it's population growth and the net per capita impact each individual has on the Earth. We can have growth in the quality of so many goods without externalities, but when 5B previously poor people on planet earth want to burn as much fossil fuel as is done in the modern world ... then we have trouble.

johnsimer 7y ago

We can adapt to a green and infinite model - solar energy is effectively infinite - assuming we adapt before catastrophe

godelski 7y ago
What do you mean by solar energy being infinite? There's a clear limit to how much energy the sun outputs. If we had high efficiency collection it would last us for awhile. But I think a lesson to learn from all this is that no resource is unlimited and it's better to recognize those limitations and prepare a mitigating well ahead of time rather than when we're in crisis. Though lack of sufficient solar energy (because high energy demands) is not likely to be catastrophic.