3 ms·

> the classical variables would have to either influence each other faster than light, or be pre-set since the beginning of the universe in a malicious conspira

> the classical variables would have to either influence each other faster than light, or be pre-set since the beginning of the universe in a malicious conspiracy Why is superdeterminism almost universally rejected by working physicists? From the outside, it feels like the most parsimonious explanation: there is just a single way things are and will be, set in motion from the very beginning. It doesn’t feel like a conspiracy of any kind to me. I’m definitely missing something, but what?

knzhou 7y ago
Because if you take superdeterminism seriously, you can't do science. Sure, it is logically possible that the world runs on classical mechanics, but that random factors in the light emitted from opposite ends of the observable universe billions of years ago were delicately set at that point so that whenever you run an experiment with it, naively assuming that no such correlations exist, quantum mechanics appears to be true instead. Unfortunately, if you are consistent with applying this principle you can't conclude anything at all. If you see the Sun and planets move every day, would you eventually accept orbital mechanics, or would you prefer the explanation that "orbital mechanics is false, everything actually moves however it wants according to random unknown factors, but those factors were arranged just so that whenever we make observations, standard orbital mechanics appears to be true"? Suppose we're betting on horce races, but I win 100 times in a row while you always lose. Would you accept my explanation that "this was merely superdetermined to be the case"? Or would you start to suspect that I'm stealing your money? Superdeterminism is philosophically equivalent to Cartesian skepticism. It's just a minor twist on being a brain in a vat. Scientists reject this not because we can disprove it, but because you can't do anything if it's true. I mean, you might as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  > you might as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning. Sometimes I feel that way. But I get up, take my meds, and press on.
jeremysalwen 7y ago
Superdeterminism is the physics equivalent of saying the fossil record was placed there by the devil to deceive us into believing evolution.

knzhou 7y ago

Because if you take superdeterminism seriously, you can't do science. Sure, it is logically possible that the world runs on classical mechanics, but that random factors in the light emitted from opposite ends of the observable universe billions of years ago were delicately set at that point so that whenever you run an experiment with it, naively assuming that no such correlations exist, quantum mechanics appears to be true instead. Unfortunately, if you are consistent with applying this principle you can't conclude anything at all. If you see the Sun and planets move every day, would you eventually accept orbital mechanics, or would you prefer the explanation that "orbital mechanics is false, everything actually moves however it wants according to random unknown factors, but those factors were arranged just so that whenever we make observations, standard orbital mechanics appears to be true"? Suppose we're betting on horce races, but I win 100 times in a row while you always lose. Would you accept my explanation that "this was merely superdetermined to be the case"? Or would you start to suspect that I'm stealing your money? Superdeterminism is philosophically equivalent to Cartesian skepticism. It's just a minor twist on being a brain in a vat. Scientists reject this not because we can disprove it, but because you can't do anything if it's true. I mean, you might as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning.

ncmncm 7y ago
> you might as well not bother getting out of bed in the morning. Sometimes I feel that way. But I get up, take my meds, and press on.

jeremysalwen 7y ago

Superdeterminism is the physics equivalent of saying the fossil record was placed there by the devil to deceive us into believing evolution.