3 ms·

Why are you comparing the DS to the iPhone when the elephant in the room is the iPod Touch? An 8GB iPod Touch is cheaper than the pricing of the 3DS. For compl

by cletus 16y ago

Why are you comparing the DS to the iPhone when the elephant in the room is the iPod Touch? An 8GB iPod Touch is cheaper than the pricing of the 3DS. For completeness we're looking at $249 for a 3DS and $170 for a DSi [1]. What's more a typical new release 3DS game will sell for $30+. Compare that to the typically <$5 for an iOS game. Now you describe those iOS games as "casual" but I see games like Angry Birds that can hold the attention for a long period of time. What's more, you can afford 10-20 of those games per DS game! Honestly I've never played a DS so I really don't know but are the games really that much better to not feel the heat from Apple? We're talking an order of magnitude difference in game costs and not too dissimilar hardware costs. [1]: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Nintendo-DS/Nintendo-DS-Hardware-Console/abcat0707001.c?id=abcat0707001 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Nintendo-DS/Nintendo-DS-Hardware...

jokermatt999 16y ago
It's entirely different markets. The "gamer" market segment generally isn't going to settle for iPod touch games. It's like saying Flash games will kill PC Gaming.
- slantyyz 16y ago
  You know, I used to dismiss the iPhone/iPod touch as a gamer device, but I don't any more. I think your argument is a little inaccurate. The "gamer" market segment may not settle for casual games, but there are plenty of deep gamer quality titles on iOS, they just don't get the same attention as the casual titles.
scrame 16y ago
Good point on the iPod touch being cheaper (and not needing a contract). However the 3DS isn't out and will not stay at that price long (thats the japanese launch price which is usually different from US releases). > Honestly I've never played a DS so I really don't know but are the games really that much better to not feel the heat from Apple? We're talking an order of magnitude difference in game costs and not too dissimilar hardware costs. Yes, they are. I think what gets me about these conversations is that it is typically people with smart phones who might play games casually, I have never heard the "Apple will beat Nintendo" argument from someone who uses both. Here, look at a list of the top iOS games from last year: http://wireless.ign.com/articles/106/1063222p27.html http://wireless.ign.com/articles/106/1063222p27.html With the exception of GTA: Chinatown wars (which is a DS port), those games are all nostalgic remakes (space invaders, oregon trail), puzzle ports (peggle) or generally pretty simple/shallow games. These are great diversions for 5 minutes waiting for a train, but most of them are not "great" or even "good" games. I admit that the iOS is versatile, but it has a lot of its own limitations, many of which coming from the fact that its _not_ a games machine. The DS has its own share of shovelware, certainly, as do all platforms, but it is a dedicated gaming platform, and the games on there are leagues better. Also, individual games cost $30 new at release time, but that cost goes down significantly quickly. Nintendo said a few years ago they consider the iphone to be a competitor, but they are not stupid and have the same focus on high product quality (hardware and first party software) as apple, with a better attitude towards their customers, and have innovated and outmaneuvered and outsold sony and microsoft (and helped run sega out of the console market) at practically every generation. The two markets actually _are_ different, even though superficially similar, and Nintendo isn't going to just disappear because iPhones/iPods support games any more than twitter disappeared after facebook implemented status updates.
- cletus 16y ago
  > Here, look at a list of the top iOS games from last year: Do you play iOS games? I ask this because I do and that's not a great list. It's the kind of list I'd expect from a content farm that picked 25 games seemingly at random. For one thing it doesn't include Angry Birds (either version), Plants vs Zombies, Bejeweled 2 and many, many others. Perhaps you likewise have misperception when it comes to mobile gaming? > These are great diversions for 5 minutes waiting for a train, but most of them are not "great" or even "good" games. I think you're coloured by your own predilections. I now I've sat there and played Angry Birds for an hour. As for games being "good" or "great", well that's largely subjective. As an anecdote, my 10 year old nephew has an iPod Touch and plays games on it all the time (when he's allowed to have it that is). Thing is, all his friends have one too. > Also, individual games cost $30 new at release time, but that cost goes down significantly quickly. Yes but iPhone games start at (rarely more than) $5 and go down. Angry Birds is one dollar. A lot of games are free too, some totally so, others ad-supported (eg Angry Birds on Android). Not that Android has an iPod Touch equivalent (yet anyway). > ... with a better attitude towards their customers I think your bias is showing here. > Nintendo isn't going to just disappear True but, in the phone market as one example, I'd rather be Apple than, say, Nokia or RIM.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    > Angry Birds (either version), Plants vs Zombies, Bejeweled 2 All of these are examples of "shallow" or puzzle games. That's not to say that they're bad games, but it's simply not in the same market as DS games. > I now I've sat there and played Angry Birds for an hour. And that's an outlier. I was a kid of the Pokemon generation. I'd sit and play those games (and similar) all night, only stopping to do homework. For a good example of what the DS market is, I'll look at the top games under "DS" on Gamefaqs. This isn't a perfect representation (represents activity on the site vs sales), but it'll do. 1 to 3 are all Pokemon. 4 is a Kingdom Hearts game, a series known for it's story more than anything. 5th is Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, a traditional RPG. 6th is more Pokemon. 7th is Dragon Quest IX, another installment in the classic RPG series. I can't speak for the rest of the list because I don't know the games mentioned, but by now you should have noticed a trend: RPGs and story. These are games that (as a kid) I'd play for an hour at a minimum. You can easily get 20 or 30 hours out of these and that's before replay value (which absolutely ridiculous when you're talking about Pokemon). That $30 isn't just something to keep you distracted on the bus; it's something you'll put some time into playing. I don't mean to sound rude, but it seems like something you just aren't getting as a "non-gamer". I don't mean that in a bad way, but to me there's a massive difference between Angry Birds: February Edition! and the next installment in an RPG series I know and love. One will give me quick diversion while I wait in line, but the other one will offer me hours upon hours of entertainment and story. Edit: Apologies for the tone of this post. I love Angry Birds and similar for what they are, but I have a pet peeve about people conflating casual/social games with video games as a whole.

by cletus 16y ago

jokermatt999 16y ago

It's entirely different markets. The "gamer" market segment generally isn't going to settle for iPod touch games. It's like saying Flash games will kill PC Gaming.

slantyyz 16y ago
You know, I used to dismiss the iPhone/iPod touch as a gamer device, but I don't any more. I think your argument is a little inaccurate. The "gamer" market segment may not settle for casual games, but there are plenty of deep gamer quality titles on iOS, they just don't get the same attention as the casual titles.

scrame 16y ago

Good point on the iPod touch being cheaper (and not needing a contract). However the 3DS isn't out and will not stay at that price long (thats the japanese launch price which is usually different from US releases). > Honestly I've never played a DS so I really don't know but are the games really that much better to not feel the heat from Apple? We're talking an order of magnitude difference in game costs and not too dissimilar hardware costs. Yes, they are. I think what gets me about these conversations is that it is typically people with smart phones who might play games casually, I have never heard the "Apple will beat Nintendo" argument from someone who uses both. Here, look at a list of the top iOS games from last year: http://wireless.ign.com/articles/106/1063222p27.html http://wireless.ign.com/articles/106/1063222p27.html With the exception of GTA: Chinatown wars (which is a DS port), those games are all nostalgic remakes (space invaders, oregon trail), puzzle ports (peggle) or generally pretty simple/shallow games. These are great diversions for 5 minutes waiting for a train, but most of them are not "great" or even "good" games. I admit that the iOS is versatile, but it has a lot of its own limitations, many of which coming from the fact that its _not_ a games machine. The DS has its own share of shovelware, certainly, as do all platforms, but it is a dedicated gaming platform, and the games on there are leagues better. Also, individual games cost $30 new at release time, but that cost goes down significantly quickly. Nintendo said a few years ago they consider the iphone to be a competitor, but they are not stupid and have the same focus on high product quality (hardware and first party software) as apple, with a better attitude towards their customers, and have innovated and outmaneuvered and outsold sony and microsoft (and helped run sega out of the console market) at practically every generation. The two markets actually _are_ different, even though superficially similar, and Nintendo isn't going to just disappear because iPhones/iPods support games any more than twitter disappeared after facebook implemented status updates.

cletus 16y ago
> Here, look at a list of the top iOS games from last year: Do you play iOS games? I ask this because I do and that's not a great list. It's the kind of list I'd expect from a content farm that picked 25 games seemingly at random. For one thing it doesn't include Angry Birds (either version), Plants vs Zombies, Bejeweled 2 and many, many others. Perhaps you likewise have misperception when it comes to mobile gaming? > These are great diversions for 5 minutes waiting for a train, but most of them are not "great" or even "good" games. I think you're coloured by your own predilections. I now I've sat there and played Angry Birds for an hour. As for games being "good" or "great", well that's largely subjective. As an anecdote, my 10 year old nephew has an iPod Touch and plays games on it all the time (when he's allowed to have it that is). Thing is, all his friends have one too. > Also, individual games cost $30 new at release time, but that cost goes down significantly quickly. Yes but iPhone games start at (rarely more than) $5 and go down. Angry Birds is one dollar. A lot of games are free too, some totally so, others ad-supported (eg Angry Birds on Android). Not that Android has an iPod Touch equivalent (yet anyway). > ... with a better attitude towards their customers I think your bias is showing here. > Nintendo isn't going to just disappear True but, in the phone market as one example, I'd rather be Apple than, say, Nokia or RIM.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  > Angry Birds (either version), Plants vs Zombies, Bejeweled 2 All of these are examples of "shallow" or puzzle games. That's not to say that they're bad games, but it's simply not in the same market as DS games. > I now I've sat there and played Angry Birds for an hour. And that's an outlier. I was a kid of the Pokemon generation. I'd sit and play those games (and similar) all night, only stopping to do homework. For a good example of what the DS market is, I'll look at the top games under "DS" on Gamefaqs. This isn't a perfect representation (represents activity on the site vs sales), but it'll do. 1 to 3 are all Pokemon. 4 is a Kingdom Hearts game, a series known for it's story more than anything. 5th is Golden Sun: Dark Dawn, a traditional RPG. 6th is more Pokemon. 7th is Dragon Quest IX, another installment in the classic RPG series. I can't speak for the rest of the list because I don't know the games mentioned, but by now you should have noticed a trend: RPGs and story. These are games that (as a kid) I'd play for an hour at a minimum. You can easily get 20 or 30 hours out of these and that's before replay value (which absolutely ridiculous when you're talking about Pokemon). That $30 isn't just something to keep you distracted on the bus; it's something you'll put some time into playing. I don't mean to sound rude, but it seems like something you just aren't getting as a "non-gamer". I don't mean that in a bad way, but to me there's a massive difference between Angry Birds: February Edition! and the next installment in an RPG series I know and love. One will give me quick diversion while I wait in line, but the other one will offer me hours upon hours of entertainment and story. Edit: Apologies for the tone of this post. I love Angry Birds and similar for what they are, but I have a pet peeve about people conflating casual/social games with video games as a whole.