5 ms·

Thar Be Witches, and Us

21 points by Vigier 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dbspin 7y ago
Paywall.
- synt4x1k0 7y ago
  Disable JavaScript and you can read any article on nytimes.com
dddddaviddddd 7y ago
Overview of witchcraft cases in Scotland from the Scottish Witchcraft Project, more detail than the linked article: http://www.shca.ed.ac.uk/Research/witches/introduction.html http://www.shca.ed.ac.uk/Research/witches/introduction.html
deogeo 7y ago
> The intensity of the panic rose and fell more than once over these 200 years [..] It’s unclear how many were executed. The interactive map includes data on the deaths of 123 people. Other sources estimate 300 to 2,000. So an upper estimate of 10 deaths per year - hardly an "extensive craze".
- tptacek 7y ago
  Isn't that a significantly higher number than the Salem witch craze, which was (1) much more tightly geographically focused and (2) one of the signal historical events of the era? We teach the Salem Witch Trials to children in elementary school; this is the first I'd heard of the Scottish witch craze.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    It's a higher number, but it's over a much larger area and time-span - all of Scotland, and 200 years. So it's expected there would be more cases. > this is the first I'd heard of the Scottish witch craze. That's not surprising - compared to everything else going on at the time, this seems worth little more than a footnote. During the same period, over 1 million people were enslaved in the course of the Barbary slave trade alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - thaumasiotes 7y ago
      > it's over a much larger area and time-span - all of Scotland, and 200 years. So it's expected there would be more cases. You're half right and half badly wrong. 10 deaths per year being a higher number is less surprising when you consider that the statistic covers a wider area. It's much more surprising if the statistic covers a huge span of time! You expect the rate to go back to something normal, not to maintain itself at severely elevated levels for 200 straight years.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    The Salem Witch Trials being one of the signal historical events of the era is a judgment, not a fact. In 100 years what are considered the events worth teaching in classes about colonial British North America will be different.
    - pvg 7y ago
      In 100 years what are considered the events worth teaching in classes about colonial British North America will be different. That seems like much more of an opinion than the actual fact of the abiding fascination with the Salem Witch Trials over the last couple of hundred years.
brians 7y ago
Some called it out at the time. Reginald Scot’s “Discoverie of Witchcraft” is quite readable today: skeptical, detailed, charitable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discoverie_of_Witchcraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discoverie_of_Witchcraft
bobthechef 7y ago
Nice try with the witches/contemporary leftist pet causes switcharoo. The fallacy is strong with this one.
- acheron 7y ago
  It’s the New York Times. I’m pretty sure they don’t allow a piece to be published unless it does that.
- jakeogh 7y ago
  And right in the prev paragraph: "But historical erasure poses a greater threat" The NTY only likes free speech when they need it for something. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19719241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19719241 edit: broken Hitchens YT link: jyoOfRog1EM -> https://youtu.be/olefVguutfo https://youtu.be/olefVguutfo
- dang 7y ago
  Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait like this and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21367020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21367020? You've been posting like that, in fact, for months. We ban accounts that post that way. HN is not a place for ideological battle or religious flamewar. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd be grateful. The idea is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.
neonate 7y ago
http://archive.is/ipAln http://archive.is/ipAln

21 points by Vigier 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dbspin 7y ago

Paywall.

synt4x1k0 7y ago
Disable JavaScript and you can read any article on nytimes.com

dddddaviddddd 7y ago

Overview of witchcraft cases in Scotland from the Scottish Witchcraft Project, more detail than the linked article: http://www.shca.ed.ac.uk/Research/witches/introduction.html http://www.shca.ed.ac.uk/Research/witches/introduction.html

deogeo 7y ago

> The intensity of the panic rose and fell more than once over these 200 years [..] It’s unclear how many were executed. The interactive map includes data on the deaths of 123 people. Other sources estimate 300 to 2,000. So an upper estimate of 10 deaths per year - hardly an "extensive craze".

tptacek 7y ago
Isn't that a significantly higher number than the Salem witch craze, which was (1) much more tightly geographically focused and (2) one of the signal historical events of the era? We teach the Salem Witch Trials to children in elementary school; this is the first I'd heard of the Scottish witch craze.
- deogeo 7y ago
  It's a higher number, but it's over a much larger area and time-span - all of Scotland, and 200 years. So it's expected there would be more cases. > this is the first I'd heard of the Scottish witch craze. That's not surprising - compared to everything else going on at the time, this seems worth little more than a footnote. During the same period, over 1 million people were enslaved in the course of the Barbary slave trade alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - thaumasiotes 7y ago
    > it's over a much larger area and time-span - all of Scotland, and 200 years. So it's expected there would be more cases. You're half right and half badly wrong. 10 deaths per year being a higher number is less surprising when you consider that the statistic covers a wider area. It's much more surprising if the statistic covers a huge span of time! You expect the rate to go back to something normal, not to maintain itself at severely elevated levels for 200 straight years.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  The Salem Witch Trials being one of the signal historical events of the era is a judgment, not a fact. In 100 years what are considered the events worth teaching in classes about colonial British North America will be different.
  - pvg 7y ago
    In 100 years what are considered the events worth teaching in classes about colonial British North America will be different. That seems like much more of an opinion than the actual fact of the abiding fascination with the Salem Witch Trials over the last couple of hundred years.

brians 7y ago

Some called it out at the time. Reginald Scot’s “Discoverie of Witchcraft” is quite readable today: skeptical, detailed, charitable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discoverie_of_Witchcraft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discoverie_of_Witchcraft

bobthechef 7y ago

Nice try with the witches/contemporary leftist pet causes switcharoo. The fallacy is strong with this one.

acheron 7y ago
It’s the New York Times. I’m pretty sure they don’t allow a piece to be published unless it does that.
jakeogh 7y ago
And right in the prev paragraph: "But historical erasure poses a greater threat" The NTY only likes free speech when they need it for something. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19719241 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19719241 edit: broken Hitchens YT link: jyoOfRog1EM -> https://youtu.be/olefVguutfo https://youtu.be/olefVguutfo
dang 7y ago
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait like this and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21367020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21367020? You've been posting like that, in fact, for months. We ban accounts that post that way. HN is not a place for ideological battle or religious flamewar. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd be grateful. The idea is: if you have a substantive point to make, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't comment until you do.

neonate 7y ago

http://archive.is/ipAln http://archive.is/ipAln