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Since the early 2000s, Microsoft has done a significant amount of work for the NSA. AWS has had GovCloud, and it is true the CIA uses AWS, but MSFT has built ou

Since the early 2000s, Microsoft has done a significant amount of work for the NSA. AWS has had GovCloud, and it is true the CIA uses AWS, but MSFT has built out quite well some of the more exotic requests of the NSA. The crown jewel of the NSA’s MSFT partnership is the San Antonio, Texas data center. The “5150 Rogers Road” data center was chosen because Texas has cheap electricity, which is an enormous cost outlay for the NSA. Additionally, and the FBI chose San Antonio for a significant presence as well because of this, is Texas has a separate electrical grid from the rest of the US. Also San Antonio has something like 4 military bases. Ft. Sam Houston where the Army medics train, Lackland Air Force Base (home of cybercommand for the Air Force), Kelley Air Force Base, and perhaps even 1 or 2 I can’t recall. 120 minutes to the north is the recently established Army Futures Command in Austin, along with Ft. Hood in Killeen, the Army’s largest base in the world. AWS does not currently have a data center in Texas, which has always frustrated the Texas government. They did establish a shipping center in San Marcos, but even GCO is building out in Dallas where IBM Cloud has a data center, and Oracle Cloud has an Austin data center.

stevehawk 7y ago
the entire IC uses AWS. They have their own private AWS. https://aws.amazon.com/federal/us-intelligence-community/ https://aws.amazon.com/federal/us-intelligence-community/
- Bajeezus 7y ago
  The IC has been backing away from AWS exclusivity even before this contract. The NSA and CIA shifted some of their budget and awarded MSFT a cloud contract.
gtirloni 7y ago
> Texas has a separate electrical grid from the rest of the US. This is interesting. The Wikipedia article has this gem: "The Texas Interconnection is maintained as a separate grid for political, rather than technical reasons" https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/08/why-texas-has-its-own-power-grid.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/08/why-texas-has-it...
- meddlepal 7y ago
  Core to many Texans identity is a belief that someday Texas is going to secede from the Union again and become its own independent country. Don't get me wrong, I love Texas and I love many of the Texans I've met for being some of the chillest, most down to earth, pragmatic and welcoming people I have ever met, but they are a bit weird about this particular issue sometimes.
  - Leader2light 7y ago
    It may not seem so weird when the USA as a whole is going down in flames someday.
  - rgrieselhuber 7y ago
    Why is that weird?
    - techsupporter 7y ago
      As a native Texan, it's weird for a few reasons: a) Pragmatically, separating from the rest of the United States would be devastating to our economy. Much like the United Kingdom from the EU, but on a much larger scale, because the vast majority of our trade, people, and connectedness come from being part of the U.S. Texans like to trot out the factoid that relatively little land in Texas is owned by the federal government because the feds didn't get any when Texas joined the Union, but the land that is owned by the feds contributes a massive amount to our economy. Metro areas like Killeen and a good chunk of San Antonio would simply cease to exist if the military left. (Never mind that a lot of that oil that Texans are so proud of us dragging out of the ground has to go on pipelines that cross the U.S.) b) It promotes an "us vs. them" philosophy that's not healthy. Texas tries to hold itself out as separate and, to some extent, "above" the rest of the United States. Yet we get the same two Senators and elect representatives to the same federal House as everybody else. Our way of doing things is not necessarily the right way simply because it's the Texan way. (Our legislature, proudly to some people's way of thinking, only meets once every other year and only for a couple of months. That's a terrible way to govern a state of several million people, especially with a phenomenally weak executive.) c) When do we move on from trying to live history to remembering it? In order to graduate from college, I had to take courses in both federal and state history (3 credit hours of "HIS 1024 History of Texas I" is on my transcript), just because we're so wrapped up in our own mythology. Yes, Texas was its own country. So was California, and Alaska, and Hawaii. Those are things for the textbooks and to explain weird language on deeds and why so many flags fly over the state capitol. It's not the basis for some inexplicable "independent" streak. Texas needs to get off its predisposition with its past and look towards its future, preferably being one that doesn't embrace fossil fuels--good job on the wind production, thanks T. Boone Pickens--and a car-focused, sprawling development culture. I hope it does, though I'm watching from afar, having decamped to Washington State many years ago.
ZeroCool2u 7y ago
The electrical grid is one of the more subtle, but critically important points I hadn't considered. I think the DoD's decades long reliance on AD and Windows in general gave MSFT a pretty huge advantage as well. Imagine trying to shift away from that Windows only world in any meaningful way in an organization and bureaucracy of that size. What a nightmare.
- pard68 7y ago
  Our AD, private org, is made up of 1.4 million user accounts. We are locked into AD forever and ever and ever... I imagine it is the same for the DoD.
- Aperocky 7y ago
  Amazon does provide seamless AD integration into the cloud though. It's just that Microsoft has the advantage of being the creator of AD and thus the automatic name association.
simonebrunozzi 7y ago
You sound like a smart guy, but most of your considerations are not as important as you think they are. 1) The San Antonio data center: yes, it's a big and shiny one, but you don't pick MSFT vs AWS because of a shiny data center. AWS has amazing DCs across the US, and if you talk to people in the industry, AWS and Google have the most advanced DC technology out there, with Microsoft lagging a bit (but not too far off). 2) San Antonio has 4 military bases: not much to do with picking MSFT, again. The only argument for "human proximity" is Langley Virginia, and it is still a weak one. You don't need physical proximity, actually you try to avoid it (in case of an attack, you don't want to wipe out both the DC and the smart security people using it for the government). 3) Texas has a separate electrical grid: true, but most modern data centers NEED to have built-in redundancy in relation to: power grid, flood plains, supply routes, etc. Which means this is not really a big advantage anymore.
- mattrp 7y ago
  In regards to proximity, I felt the prior commenter was saying that aws had not made a physical investment inside a military state.. meaning the pentagon prioritized bidders that aligned with existing pork/spending priorities. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s an intriguing assertion.
  - Frost1x 7y ago
    I mean Amazon's HQ2 is pretty darn close to the pentagon itself, less than a mile away.
    - mattrp 7y ago
      The pentagon is table stakes - everyone has something there. If you’re trying to demonstrate commitment, you invest in the hinterlands... and if you’re trying to justify a decision that otherwise is a deadlock that’s maybe where you find the tie-breakers.
      - pm90 7y ago
        I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted as the point you’re bringing up is a legitimate one. If the assessment of 2 vendors finds them equal in most regards wrt the requirements, that’s when you look at somewhat unrelated factors to make the call. In this case, it’s entirely plausible that the DoD considered the fact that MSFT would be pliable to their concerns as a deciding factor.
nickpsecurity 7y ago
Microsoft gets the contracts because they do lots of lobbying (i.e. corruption), marketing to government, lock-in tactics that keep government agencies stuck on them, and probably some side deals with NSA since that stuff goes way back. It pays to pay off or help the right people. They pay you back. Then, the others are stuck on your stack due to bad decisions, don't want to admit it, and then sing praises of things they're forced to buy.
mrbonner 7y ago
In term of data center importance, you miss a big point that Augusta, GA is becoming the NSA and USA center for information warfare. The NSA has been moving more and more staff from Maryland there. In recent years. Hell, Comcast even dumps a significant budget to “upgrade” their infrastructure near and around Ft. Gordon. So, I don’t believe San Antonio is as significant as Augusta.
danielovichdk 7y ago
Can you provide proof of this somehow?
Dumblydorr 7y ago
VA houses its data and servers and staffs in Austin as well.
accounn 7y ago
exotic windows 10.

stevehawk 7y ago

the entire IC uses AWS. They have their own private AWS. https://aws.amazon.com/federal/us-intelligence-community/ https://aws.amazon.com/federal/us-intelligence-community/

Bajeezus 7y ago
The IC has been backing away from AWS exclusivity even before this contract. The NSA and CIA shifted some of their budget and awarded MSFT a cloud contract.

gtirloni 7y ago

> Texas has a separate electrical grid from the rest of the US. This is interesting. The Wikipedia article has this gem: "The Texas Interconnection is maintained as a separate grid for political, rather than technical reasons" https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/08/why-texas-has-its-own-power-grid.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/08/why-texas-has-it...

meddlepal 7y ago
Core to many Texans identity is a belief that someday Texas is going to secede from the Union again and become its own independent country. Don't get me wrong, I love Texas and I love many of the Texans I've met for being some of the chillest, most down to earth, pragmatic and welcoming people I have ever met, but they are a bit weird about this particular issue sometimes.
- Leader2light 7y ago
  It may not seem so weird when the USA as a whole is going down in flames someday.
- rgrieselhuber 7y ago
  Why is that weird?
  - techsupporter 7y ago
    As a native Texan, it's weird for a few reasons: a) Pragmatically, separating from the rest of the United States would be devastating to our economy. Much like the United Kingdom from the EU, but on a much larger scale, because the vast majority of our trade, people, and connectedness come from being part of the U.S. Texans like to trot out the factoid that relatively little land in Texas is owned by the federal government because the feds didn't get any when Texas joined the Union, but the land that is owned by the feds contributes a massive amount to our economy. Metro areas like Killeen and a good chunk of San Antonio would simply cease to exist if the military left. (Never mind that a lot of that oil that Texans are so proud of us dragging out of the ground has to go on pipelines that cross the U.S.) b) It promotes an "us vs. them" philosophy that's not healthy. Texas tries to hold itself out as separate and, to some extent, "above" the rest of the United States. Yet we get the same two Senators and elect representatives to the same federal House as everybody else. Our way of doing things is not necessarily the right way simply because it's the Texan way. (Our legislature, proudly to some people's way of thinking, only meets once every other year and only for a couple of months. That's a terrible way to govern a state of several million people, especially with a phenomenally weak executive.) c) When do we move on from trying to live history to remembering it? In order to graduate from college, I had to take courses in both federal and state history (3 credit hours of "HIS 1024 History of Texas I" is on my transcript), just because we're so wrapped up in our own mythology. Yes, Texas was its own country. So was California, and Alaska, and Hawaii. Those are things for the textbooks and to explain weird language on deeds and why so many flags fly over the state capitol. It's not the basis for some inexplicable "independent" streak. Texas needs to get off its predisposition with its past and look towards its future, preferably being one that doesn't embrace fossil fuels--good job on the wind production, thanks T. Boone Pickens--and a car-focused, sprawling development culture. I hope it does, though I'm watching from afar, having decamped to Washington State many years ago.

ZeroCool2u 7y ago

The electrical grid is one of the more subtle, but critically important points I hadn't considered. I think the DoD's decades long reliance on AD and Windows in general gave MSFT a pretty huge advantage as well. Imagine trying to shift away from that Windows only world in any meaningful way in an organization and bureaucracy of that size. What a nightmare.

pard68 7y ago
Our AD, private org, is made up of 1.4 million user accounts. We are locked into AD forever and ever and ever... I imagine it is the same for the DoD.
Aperocky 7y ago
Amazon does provide seamless AD integration into the cloud though. It's just that Microsoft has the advantage of being the creator of AD and thus the automatic name association.

simonebrunozzi 7y ago

You sound like a smart guy, but most of your considerations are not as important as you think they are. 1) The San Antonio data center: yes, it's a big and shiny one, but you don't pick MSFT vs AWS because of a shiny data center. AWS has amazing DCs across the US, and if you talk to people in the industry, AWS and Google have the most advanced DC technology out there, with Microsoft lagging a bit (but not too far off). 2) San Antonio has 4 military bases: not much to do with picking MSFT, again. The only argument for "human proximity" is Langley Virginia, and it is still a weak one. You don't need physical proximity, actually you try to avoid it (in case of an attack, you don't want to wipe out both the DC and the smart security people using it for the government). 3) Texas has a separate electrical grid: true, but most modern data centers NEED to have built-in redundancy in relation to: power grid, flood plains, supply routes, etc. Which means this is not really a big advantage anymore.

mattrp 7y ago
In regards to proximity, I felt the prior commenter was saying that aws had not made a physical investment inside a military state.. meaning the pentagon prioritized bidders that aligned with existing pork/spending priorities. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s an intriguing assertion.
- Frost1x 7y ago
  I mean Amazon's HQ2 is pretty darn close to the pentagon itself, less than a mile away.
  - mattrp 7y ago
    The pentagon is table stakes - everyone has something there. If you’re trying to demonstrate commitment, you invest in the hinterlands... and if you’re trying to justify a decision that otherwise is a deadlock that’s maybe where you find the tie-breakers.
    - pm90 7y ago
      I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted as the point you’re bringing up is a legitimate one. If the assessment of 2 vendors finds them equal in most regards wrt the requirements, that’s when you look at somewhat unrelated factors to make the call. In this case, it’s entirely plausible that the DoD considered the fact that MSFT would be pliable to their concerns as a deciding factor.

nickpsecurity 7y ago

Microsoft gets the contracts because they do lots of lobbying (i.e. corruption), marketing to government, lock-in tactics that keep government agencies stuck on them, and probably some side deals with NSA since that stuff goes way back. It pays to pay off or help the right people. They pay you back. Then, the others are stuck on your stack due to bad decisions, don't want to admit it, and then sing praises of things they're forced to buy.

mrbonner 7y ago

In term of data center importance, you miss a big point that Augusta, GA is becoming the NSA and USA center for information warfare. The NSA has been moving more and more staff from Maryland there. In recent years. Hell, Comcast even dumps a significant budget to “upgrade” their infrastructure near and around Ft. Gordon. So, I don’t believe San Antonio is as significant as Augusta.

danielovichdk 7y ago

Can you provide proof of this somehow?

Dumblydorr 7y ago

VA houses its data and servers and staffs in Austin as well.

accounn 7y ago

exotic windows 10.