4 ms·

One thing I notice about Trade now is the perverse power we've given to groups which fundamentally don't have other countries or individuals interests in minds.

One thing I notice about Trade now is the perverse power we've given to groups which fundamentally don't have other countries or individuals interests in minds. One thing I notice is that left wingers are essentially universally aghast over what's happening to Hong Kong. They will hold to the idea that a trade war with China is the stupidest thing ever that causes economic damage to yourself and incurs great risk. Which is true. However you can't have it both ways and you have to choose between economic vitality and essentially having no say in a situation like Hong Kong. I've seen countries hunger for trade being used as a lever for international legal reform. A condition of signing trade deals with the united states where countries essentially have to agree to give multinational corporations more government enforced rights or not have free trade. Specifically "intellectual property harmonization". If you want to have trade with the united states you appearantly need to agree that for every idea a corporation comes up with, they have an exclusive right to using that idea for more and more years, and consequently governments need to agree to punish people for not giving corporations money for those ideas for longer and longer periods of time. This is effectively a system that redistributes wealth towards corporate interests in an era of striking wealth inequality, on the reasonable sounding grounds they need that money to "develop new medications", but then it's ignoring the reality on the ground of poor health spreading like a contagion due to economic inequality. As the average person is unable to afford things like medications more and more... the economic vitality of all society... including the very companies who lobbied for these laws will suffer. Yet there's no effective way to push back against these laws without giving up free trade and shooting yourself in the foot economically. I think at some point we're going to start realizing how many costs free trade have that haven't really been accounted for. It's very easy to portray it as a positive if you don't account for all the externalities.

sarah180 7y ago
This is true in a discussion where the relative value you place on international trade is either infinite or zero. You can oppose an ill-considered trade war without opposing all actions that would impact trade. This is not an either/or proposition. It's not hypocritical to suggest that, in the real world, sometimes you might have to weigh competing goods.
- TheOperator 7y ago
  I just see a status quo where Trump would openly abandon HK in a heartbeat for a good trade deal. Whereas the left can stomach talking about boycotting a company like Blizzard but they're violently opposed to action with any teeth because that action will likely have more real negative consequences for theirselves than not being able to play SOME video games. I'm not saying it's hypocritical but is sure as shit is weak. In the end trade is valued higher than democracy by both Trump and his detractors. It just makes me sad and cynical. I wonder if we will ever have a "Nixon goes to China" moment in reverse? P.S. Don't know what you're on about saying how my position is only true if trade has no or infinite value. My position would be utterly incoherent if I thought it had infinite value. My position would be coherent if I believed Trade had no value but it's also coherent if I believe it's overvalued.

sarah180 7y ago

This is true in a discussion where the relative value you place on international trade is either infinite or zero. You can oppose an ill-considered trade war without opposing all actions that would impact trade. This is not an either/or proposition. It's not hypocritical to suggest that, in the real world, sometimes you might have to weigh competing goods.

TheOperator 7y ago
I just see a status quo where Trump would openly abandon HK in a heartbeat for a good trade deal. Whereas the left can stomach talking about boycotting a company like Blizzard but they're violently opposed to action with any teeth because that action will likely have more real negative consequences for theirselves than not being able to play SOME video games. I'm not saying it's hypocritical but is sure as shit is weak. In the end trade is valued higher than democracy by both Trump and his detractors. It just makes me sad and cynical. I wonder if we will ever have a "Nixon goes to China" moment in reverse? P.S. Don't know what you're on about saying how my position is only true if trade has no or infinite value. My position would be utterly incoherent if I thought it had infinite value. My position would be coherent if I believed Trade had no value but it's also coherent if I believe it's overvalued.