3 ms·

> (You should still generally leave 30 percent) Don't know where this guy goes out, but apparently too rich for my blood. I dislike tipping because it's part

> (You should still generally leave 30 percent) Don't know where this guy goes out, but apparently too rich for my blood. I dislike tipping because it's part of the "guilt" economy. Just tell me what you think is a fair price and I'll decide whether or not I want to buy it. Don't undercut the price by 25% and then be offended when I don't pay the right amount.

kick 7y ago
The problem with that is that the people benefiting from the tips don't have a say in it. Of course the owner of a restaurant will undercut his product significantly because he's legally allowed not to pay for labor fairly, what can the worker do?
- hirundo 7y ago
  > what can the worker do? I used to work for tips. I quit that job when I found a better one. It feels like I had a say in that, and lots of choices.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    Would it be reasonable to say that most or all servers could quit their jobs and find new ones in better fields - or that a significant enough proportion could do this to pressure real change in terms of compensation?
    - whiddershins 7y ago
      Well, in some situations ... not all situations, but some situations ... your statement actually ends up explaining how good a service job is. If it is hard to find work in a “better field” that could be because there are few options. Or it could be because the service job is much better than could be expected based on skill set, education level, etc. In NYC most (not all) people who work as a waiter could get a job as a plumber’s apprentice. This statement isn’t random. I know at least one plumber who regularly asks me if I know anyone who wants work, I’ve discussed their needs in an entry level employee, and as far as I can tell the only problem versus a food service job is being asked to wake up early and work a consistent 40 hour work week. So if someone chooses to be a bartender instead, is it because their options “suck” or is it because bar tending is a pretty good gig?
    - hirundo 7y ago
      Why in better fields? When I was 15 I quit a burger joint to work at a burrito joint for like a $.50/hour raise. I flipped jobs often at that age and my coworkers and friends did the same. More than once -- including my highest paid job as a teen -- I quit because the boss was an asshole. Everything paid over the minimum wage is the result of the negotiating power of employees. In a service business, where tips are found, the quality of those employees is critical to the bottom line. That translates into leverage for friendly, productive employees, who can often walk out and get a new job before you can calculate their final paycheck.
munk-a 7y ago
> Just tell me what you think is a fair price and I'll decide whether or not I want to buy it. Don't undercut the price by 25% and then be offended when I don't pay the right amount. The issue here is that you're not taking money out of the merchant's pockets, your price is either being (effectively) subsidized by either other patrons of the restaurant (assuming the total tips are low enough to trigger minimum wage repayment by the owner) or your meal is subsidized by the servers which, often, are very junior works or generally disadvantaged in terms of employee rights. If you're cool with that then that's all fine, but the person being undercut is simply not the person who is setting the price.
- war1025 7y ago
  I mainly avoid the issue by just not going to places that expect you to tip.
  - sushid 7y ago
    So you never eat out, ride a cab/rideshare, drink coffee or alcohol while out, cut your hair, etc? I find that hard to believe.
    - war1025 7y ago
      I eat out at a sit down restaurant maybe once every two months. Have never ridden in a cab. Drink coffee, but don't feel that the ability to pull the spigot on a coffee urn warrants a tip. Don't drink alcohol. Wife cuts my hair about once every six months.

kick 7y ago

The problem with that is that the people benefiting from the tips don't have a say in it. Of course the owner of a restaurant will undercut his product significantly because he's legally allowed not to pay for labor fairly, what can the worker do?

hirundo 7y ago
> what can the worker do? I used to work for tips. I quit that job when I found a better one. It feels like I had a say in that, and lots of choices.
- munk-a 7y ago
  Would it be reasonable to say that most or all servers could quit their jobs and find new ones in better fields - or that a significant enough proportion could do this to pressure real change in terms of compensation?
  - whiddershins 7y ago
    Well, in some situations ... not all situations, but some situations ... your statement actually ends up explaining how good a service job is. If it is hard to find work in a “better field” that could be because there are few options. Or it could be because the service job is much better than could be expected based on skill set, education level, etc. In NYC most (not all) people who work as a waiter could get a job as a plumber’s apprentice. This statement isn’t random. I know at least one plumber who regularly asks me if I know anyone who wants work, I’ve discussed their needs in an entry level employee, and as far as I can tell the only problem versus a food service job is being asked to wake up early and work a consistent 40 hour work week. So if someone chooses to be a bartender instead, is it because their options “suck” or is it because bar tending is a pretty good gig?
  - hirundo 7y ago
    Why in better fields? When I was 15 I quit a burger joint to work at a burrito joint for like a $.50/hour raise. I flipped jobs often at that age and my coworkers and friends did the same. More than once -- including my highest paid job as a teen -- I quit because the boss was an asshole. Everything paid over the minimum wage is the result of the negotiating power of employees. In a service business, where tips are found, the quality of those employees is critical to the bottom line. That translates into leverage for friendly, productive employees, who can often walk out and get a new job before you can calculate their final paycheck.

munk-a 7y ago

> Just tell me what you think is a fair price and I'll decide whether or not I want to buy it. Don't undercut the price by 25% and then be offended when I don't pay the right amount. The issue here is that you're not taking money out of the merchant's pockets, your price is either being (effectively) subsidized by either other patrons of the restaurant (assuming the total tips are low enough to trigger minimum wage repayment by the owner) or your meal is subsidized by the servers which, often, are very junior works or generally disadvantaged in terms of employee rights. If you're cool with that then that's all fine, but the person being undercut is simply not the person who is setting the price.

war1025 7y ago
I mainly avoid the issue by just not going to places that expect you to tip.
- sushid 7y ago
  So you never eat out, ride a cab/rideshare, drink coffee or alcohol while out, cut your hair, etc? I find that hard to believe.
  - war1025 7y ago
    I eat out at a sit down restaurant maybe once every two months. Have never ridden in a cab. Drink coffee, but don't feel that the ability to pull the spigot on a coffee urn warrants a tip. Don't drink alcohol. Wife cuts my hair about once every six months.