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Well, All this FUD has ensured that I'll never try DDG. It's sad really - it's not even a real search engine, just some hack using APIs. And the best marketing
by andrewljohnson 16y ago
Well, All this FUD has ensured that I'll never try DDG. It's sad really - it's not even a real search engine, just some hack using APIs. And the best marketing Whiny-berg can come up with is half-truths about referer linking.
I'll stick with the search engine that has a legion of brilliant programmers working hard to bring me great search results.
- epi0Bauqu 16y agoI'm sorry you feel that way. All I can say is that I tried my hardest in this post to do the opposite of FUD. I believe this is a serious issue and I am trying to get it solved for everyone.
- axod 16y agoYou haven't begun to establish people want it "solved". There are already solutions for the people who want them (stop sending referer, adblock, etc). FWIW, I do not want Google to change their behavior in this area.
- blahedo 16y ago> You haven't begun to establish people want it "solved". I think we'll all agree that "people" in general (NB: not us) don't even understand the problem, so it's a little premature to claim a problem based on not wanting it solved. At this point I see it largely as an education campaign.
- true_religion 16y agoWhile I agree that people don't understand the technical aspects of ensuring privacy on the web, they do understand the broad nature of the issue (i.e. my information is being shared, sold, or otherwise used for profiling and profit). Maybe some other HN members would like to chime in here, but was anyone working during the late 90s/early 2000s and remember the "cookie scare" that went around? Some departments made it their policy to turn off cookies in the browser by default, other users refused to even go through a shopping cart (requesting instead to phone in orders) because they heard cookies steal their information. That scare is probably why Google is being very proactive here because if users glean the incorrect information, it can be very difficult to convince them otherwise.
- chc 16y agoI don't think it's necessary for a promotional campaign to convince people who don't want your product that other people do. Your comment could point to a flaw in DDG's advertising, or it could just mean you're not their audience.
- jasonlotito 16y agoPeople want it solved. See the outrage over other privacy issues in the past regarding Google, Facebook, and countless other services. Specifically, see the outrage over the Google Buzz fiasco as an example. Privacy issues are a concern. People aren't interested in the specifics, but they make the assumption that their information is kept private. > There are already solutions for the people who want them (stop sending referer, adblock, etc). There were solutions for Google Buzz at the time. Just because they exist doesn't mean they are implemented in a way that people can use them easily. The problem isn't the tools, it's the ability to use those tools by default. Let me make this clear: people assume their information is secure by default. So, the reason you don't see a bigger uproar over this is because of assumptions people make.
- ntoshev 16y agoPeople are not used to tracking, but they will become. Web companies aren't going to stop doing it, as it is giving up enormous competitive advantage and quality of service. DDG's "not tracking you" for example means Gabriel can never offer you personalized search based on your search history (he wouldn't be able to anyway as it's not in the APIs and it is impossible to be implemented properly on top of existing APIs). This is a tangible hit on the quality of your search results right there.
- nostrademons 16y agoPrivacy issues are a concern, but is this privacy issue a concern?
- dauphin 16y ago> I believe this is a serious issue. I disagree with that, but respect for standing for what you believe in.
- andrewljohnson 16y agoSki masks?
- epi0Bauqu 16y agoWhat image would you choose for that point? I'm happy to switch it -- I actually already switched it once at the request of someone else.
- benologist 16y agoJason masks!
- andrewljohnson 16y agoI would suggest you stick to blog posts that make logical arguments, instead of illustrative FUD. And then when people call you out on your FUD, I suggest you don't deny it.
- epi0Bauqu 16y agoGoogle employees snooping personal data is a real issue that has actually happened. I don't think an illustrative guide in and of itself is a bad way to convey information.
- joh6nn 16y agosomeone with binoculars would probably work better. the ski-masks have a connotation of criminal behavior, and while i think this is undesirable behavior, it certainly isn't criminal. as an aside, i don't think i've ever seen someone wearing a ski-mask while skiing, or for that matter, for any legitimate purpose. at what point will we stop calling them "ski masks"?
- epi0Bauqu 16y agoDone.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- blub 16y agoThe only sad thing is when people come to the defense of corporations that would chew them up and spit them out in a second if it came to it.
- axod 16y agoHave you worked with Google and had a bad experience? The people I've worked with there have been extremely helpful and refreshingly 'good'. It's very easy to wrongly assume that a big company that makes profit will treat everyone poorly, but that hasn't been my experience at all.
- blub 16y agoBut how is it relevant to corporate policies if the people are nice? Google is a corporation that's making money by selling ads and those ads are targeted based on user's data. No matter how good the Google employes, the incentives are perverse and will twist Google's decision in favor of eroding customer privacy even more. See Schmidt's "privacy is dead" quote. Privacy is not dead yet, but the likes of Facebook and Google are trying really hard to kill it because there's more money for them if they do.
- axod 16y agoPrivacy is dead. People are posting intimate details of their lives on the net. Sending naked pics around their phones. They killed privacy off themselves because it gives them freedom in other ways.
- blub 16y agoAs B.Schneier said, if people post private details, it doesn't mean they don't care about their privacy at all. Even for those people, it's important that they have some control over what they post. For instance they expect their phone pic to be private to them and the person they sent it to, or they expect their Facebook info to be available only to friends and they expect that they can be able to delete it or change it. Even if your premise were correct, we have to ask ourselves if it is desirable for society that privacy is dead and I can't see how the answer would ever be yes.
- jvdh 16y agoYou seem to be forgetting that "some hack using APIs" describes a very large amount of YC startups.
- mfukar 16y agoAnd they all should be judged on their own merit.
- jvdh 16y agoI fully agree. But in the original post the commenter is insinuating that DDG is bad because it is "just a hack using APIs" in stead of a search engine based on the work of a "legion of brilliant programmers". Which results DDG is also using.
- iamelgringo 16y agoAnd the best marketing Whiny-berg can come up with is half-truths about referer linking. Dude, not cool. This is Hacker News. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks and stick to making intelligent, comments that contribute to the conversation, please.