5 ms·

Good point, I have never once felt "Wow, a new Microsoft product, can't wait to buy it!". Instead it is usually more like "Oh shit, a new Mirosoft product, I h

Good point, I have never once felt "Wow, a new Microsoft product, can't wait to buy it!". Instead it is usually more like "Oh shit, a new Mirosoft product, I hope I wont be forced to buy it to stay compatible".

nickpeterson 7y ago
It could be worse, you could be involved with Oracle and receive phone calls warning you that they could sue you.
Baeocystin 7y ago
I've felt this about Microsoft hardware, for what it's worth. I really like their mice, keyboards, and the Surface line.
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  Yeah, the Surface line was the first time since the original iPhone that I was actually excited about a piece of hardware.
  - singingboyo 7y ago
    Surface book was just the first time ever for me. (Original iPhone was before I cared) The original Surface Pro was decent, but generally slow and bulky. The first Surface Book, on the other hand, is still a great, versatile piece of hardware several years later. Of course, YMMV - a tablet alone doesn't cover everything for me, but for some people needing a keyboard/base for connections may not work out.
  - shantly 7y ago
    I finally got to use one (I think it was a bottom-tier gen 2? Whatever was current at the time) about a year and a half ago when we got one for testing stuff in IE/Edge. When I first heard of the Surface, what I thought it'd be: a bad laptop and a worse tablet. After I read and heard people raving about how great it was for years, what I thought it'd be when I finally got to use one: a great laptop and a good-enough tablet. What it was when I finally got to use it, very much to my surprise at that point: a bad laptop and a worse tablet. I don't get it.
    - jenscow 7y ago
      Same here. I got one from work for testing with. I was completely underwhelmed. I think it's a combination of astroturfing and owners trying to convince themselves they made the right decision.
      - munchbunny 7y ago
        What did you find underwhelming?
      - Baeocystin 7y ago
        I genuinely enjoy using mine. It has a great screen, and the kickstand + pen makes for a solid photoshop experience. I wish the battery life was better, and I think Microsoft is missing out by not having the detachable keyboard have a small battery onboard so that you could use the keyboard on the side while you're drawing. But it's my favorite mobile device, and I'm not joking, astroturfing, or anything like that.
        mynameisvlad 7y ago
        It existed for Surface Pro 2 (https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-5VX-00001-Surface-Power-Keyboard/dp/B00IZMKM94 https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-5VX-00001-Surface-Power-Key...) but was thick and didn't sell as well as the regular so it was discontinued.
        Baeocystin 7y ago
        Sort of. That cover was designed to increase the battery life of the device itself- it didn't work as a detachable keyboard, and it was very bulky, like you mentioned. I'm thinking something more like a button cell that would get you a day's worth of unattached work simply as a wireless keyboard, then recharge when it's clipped back on at night.
        mynameisvlad 7y ago
        Oh sorry, I missed that part of your comment. They actually did come out with an accessory that would attach onto the keyboard and do that, but it also was discontinued a long time ago. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-discontinues-surface-wireless-keyboard-adapter/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-discontinues... I assume both devices didn't do well enough on their own (otherwise they'd still be made today) to justify creating one that did both.
martin1b 7y ago
Apparently you've never used Visual Studio. It is amazing. Many of Microsoft's products are simple and boring at first glance. However, when you really want to flex it to do something powerful, the features are usually there. Their products have so many years of development in them and it shows because their products stand the test of time, particularly in the enterprise. I'm glad there are lot of other vendors entering the market though as it keeps companies like MSFT innovating.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > Apparently you've never used Visual Studio. It is amazing. I've used it heavily for years, and I disagree with this assessment. I avoid it whenever I have the option.
  - Mo3 7y ago
    I think he meant Visual Studio Code. It truly is fantastic.
    - yarrel 7y ago
      It's not based on Microsoft code, so that might have something to do with it.
  - Nimitz14 7y ago
    So you just accept using a 2nd rate C++ IDE? Because there isn't any debate, Visual Studio is the best.
    - taurath 7y ago
      “There can be no criticism of Visual Studio” seems wrong on the face of it.
  - kerng 7y ago
    There are many arguments, but Visusl Studio is the best IDE for the last two decades. Same is true for the Office suite. In my current job we don't have either and its utterly frustrating how bad the alternatives are.
munchbunny 7y ago
The Surface line (Surface Pro, Surface Laptop, and Surface Book) have hit that category lately, IMO. The specific value proposition is "it's a well designed device at a reasonable price and it doesn't come with a giant pile of OEM crapware." I've been using a dedicated GPU (switchable) model of the gen 1 Surface Book for four years, and (other than that gigantic hiccup where Intel screwed up the power management on their chips) I've loved it. Plays many of the fancier video games, battery life on the scale of 5-7 hours under web browsing workloads, great screen, and with WSL2 I get most of my Linux development needs covered as well. I can detach the screen and use it while I'm flying. I can break out the stylus when I need to draw diagrams in meetings (or... when I'm dungeon-mastering for D&D).

nickpeterson 7y ago

It could be worse, you could be involved with Oracle and receive phone calls warning you that they could sue you.

Baeocystin 7y ago

I've felt this about Microsoft hardware, for what it's worth. I really like their mice, keyboards, and the Surface line.

bcrosby95 7y ago
Yeah, the Surface line was the first time since the original iPhone that I was actually excited about a piece of hardware.
- singingboyo 7y ago
  Surface book was just the first time ever for me. (Original iPhone was before I cared) The original Surface Pro was decent, but generally slow and bulky. The first Surface Book, on the other hand, is still a great, versatile piece of hardware several years later. Of course, YMMV - a tablet alone doesn't cover everything for me, but for some people needing a keyboard/base for connections may not work out.
- shantly 7y ago
  I finally got to use one (I think it was a bottom-tier gen 2? Whatever was current at the time) about a year and a half ago when we got one for testing stuff in IE/Edge. When I first heard of the Surface, what I thought it'd be: a bad laptop and a worse tablet. After I read and heard people raving about how great it was for years, what I thought it'd be when I finally got to use one: a great laptop and a good-enough tablet. What it was when I finally got to use it, very much to my surprise at that point: a bad laptop and a worse tablet. I don't get it.
  - jenscow 7y ago
    Same here. I got one from work for testing with. I was completely underwhelmed. I think it's a combination of astroturfing and owners trying to convince themselves they made the right decision.
    - munchbunny 7y ago
      What did you find underwhelming?
    - Baeocystin 7y ago
      I genuinely enjoy using mine. It has a great screen, and the kickstand + pen makes for a solid photoshop experience. I wish the battery life was better, and I think Microsoft is missing out by not having the detachable keyboard have a small battery onboard so that you could use the keyboard on the side while you're drawing. But it's my favorite mobile device, and I'm not joking, astroturfing, or anything like that.
      - mynameisvlad 7y ago
        It existed for Surface Pro 2 (https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-5VX-00001-Surface-Power-Keyboard/dp/B00IZMKM94 https://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-5VX-00001-Surface-Power-Key...) but was thick and didn't sell as well as the regular so it was discontinued.
        Baeocystin 7y ago
        Sort of. That cover was designed to increase the battery life of the device itself- it didn't work as a detachable keyboard, and it was very bulky, like you mentioned. I'm thinking something more like a button cell that would get you a day's worth of unattached work simply as a wireless keyboard, then recharge when it's clipped back on at night.
        mynameisvlad 7y ago
        Oh sorry, I missed that part of your comment. They actually did come out with an accessory that would attach onto the keyboard and do that, but it also was discontinued a long time ago. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-discontinues-surface-wireless-keyboard-adapter/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-quietly-discontinues... I assume both devices didn't do well enough on their own (otherwise they'd still be made today) to justify creating one that did both.

martin1b 7y ago

Apparently you've never used Visual Studio. It is amazing. Many of Microsoft's products are simple and boring at first glance. However, when you really want to flex it to do something powerful, the features are usually there. Their products have so many years of development in them and it shows because their products stand the test of time, particularly in the enterprise. I'm glad there are lot of other vendors entering the market though as it keeps companies like MSFT innovating.

JohnFen 7y ago
> Apparently you've never used Visual Studio. It is amazing. I've used it heavily for years, and I disagree with this assessment. I avoid it whenever I have the option.
- Mo3 7y ago
  I think he meant Visual Studio Code. It truly is fantastic.
  - yarrel 7y ago
    It's not based on Microsoft code, so that might have something to do with it.
- Nimitz14 7y ago
  So you just accept using a 2nd rate C++ IDE? Because there isn't any debate, Visual Studio is the best.
  - taurath 7y ago
    “There can be no criticism of Visual Studio” seems wrong on the face of it.
- kerng 7y ago
  There are many arguments, but Visusl Studio is the best IDE for the last two decades. Same is true for the Office suite. In my current job we don't have either and its utterly frustrating how bad the alternatives are.

munchbunny 7y ago

The Surface line (Surface Pro, Surface Laptop, and Surface Book) have hit that category lately, IMO. The specific value proposition is "it's a well designed device at a reasonable price and it doesn't come with a giant pile of OEM crapware." I've been using a dedicated GPU (switchable) model of the gen 1 Surface Book for four years, and (other than that gigantic hiccup where Intel screwed up the power management on their chips) I've loved it. Plays many of the fancier video games, battery life on the scale of 5-7 hours under web browsing workloads, great screen, and with WSL2 I get most of my Linux development needs covered as well. I can detach the screen and use it while I'm flying. I can break out the stylus when I need to draw diagrams in meetings (or... when I'm dungeon-mastering for D&D).