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3rd time in 3 weeks. I joked that the difference between a 1st world and 3rd world country is that a 1st world country will tell you before they cut you power f

3rd time in 3 weeks. I joked that the difference between a 1st world and 3rd world country is that a 1st world country will tell you before they cut you power for 2 days.

jjoonathan 7y ago
This is not a United States problem, this is a California problem.
- GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
  yeah i said its a joke.
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    is it? I live in California and I can no longer count know how many times visitors have come to California and been completely perplexed at how “third world” parts of it are Including people from some extremely impoverished countries So rolling blackouts from a series of poorly thought out policies is very congruent
    - GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
      yeah i live east of sacramento in the mountains. I'm in the zone thats had the most hours of power cut by PG&E. The state is falling apart. Its changed so much in the last 20 years. I would rather the Sierra Nevadas be part of Nevada and let the bay area and LA leave us alone.
    - vecinu 7y ago
      I live in SF and have said that too many parts of it seem like a third world country. The biggest shame is how much money there is in the Bay Area and how many (already solved problems) exist here.
- snsr 7y ago
  united | yo͞oˈnīdəd | adjective joined together politically, for a common purpose, or by common feelings
  - CamelCaseName 7y ago
    What's the point of this comment? GP's point was that this issue is limited to California, and is not a broader issue with US infrastructure.
    - snsr 7y ago
      Problems in states are problems in the United States. I would say particularly so when concerning mismanagement of public resources entrusted to private management.
  - jjoonathan 7y ago
    California, you know the rest of us still love you, but sometimes you're a bit crazy. Sometimes you're crazy in a good way, sometimes you're crazy in a bad way, and sometimes it's hard to tell, but here's a situation where you might want to return to the fold. Nobody else is having giant, regular blackouts.
- russianbot4533 7y ago
  California can't (or soon won't) be able to maintain the veneer of the first world, with the third world population. Flag away and downvote, but the problem won't go away!
- ogre_codes 7y ago
  The poorly maintained power infrastructure is due to a poorly regulated monopoly placing shareholder returns over delivering safe and reliable infrastructure to its customers. Arguably a California problem since the regulation is mostly at a state level. The drought, above average heat, and likely the dry late season winds which are huge contributors to this problem are due to global warming which is symptom of a global problem which the United States government refuses to address.
  - ratsmack 7y ago
    I believe there are some dams in California that are in severe disrepair caused from years of spending money in all the wrong paces.
lokar 7y ago
The difference is in a 1st world country the electric utility is properly regulated with effective oversight so this won't happen.
- GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
  woosh. thats the joke
- at-fates-hands 7y ago
  Didn't California fix its regulation issues after the whole Enron debacle?
  - lokar 7y ago
    PG&E as been pulling (large) cash profits out for years while neglecting basic maintenance on the transmission network. The lack of maintenance has lead directly to the fires. The regulator decides how much maintenance they need to get done, and how much cash they can take out.
    - at-fates-hands 7y ago
      > he lack of maintenance has lead directly to the fires. Since they've been responsible for a number of fires in recent years, how are they not being fined or held accountable or for not properly maintaining their infrastructure?
      - unlinked_dll 7y ago
        They are currently involved in legal proceedings. That's why they declared bankruptcy earlier this year, it was preparation for massive fines.
      - lokar 7y ago
        The regulator could say "do a better job" Then PG&E would say: "ok, let us raise rates so it does not impact profit" If they disagree on that, it's a long administrative and legal process to work it out. Also, many of the employees of the regulator are either: - former (and future!) energy company employees - owe their jobs to politicians who take $ from the energy companies It is a complex, opaque process (to decide on require maintenance levels) that ends up controlled by the people who care the most about it.
mc32 7y ago
Problem is, the state has shrublands and, grasslands and forests which historically have been prone to natural fires. Fires happen. People also like building and living in these areas. The state regulates PG&E, sets rates, and also establishes liability on the utility for incidental fires. So the state regulates them, they follow regulation but when something anticipated happens they’re still liable. So the natural thing to do in that conundrum, as the Wargames villain quoth: the only winning move is to not play. Ergo they take their energy and go home.
- ogre_codes 7y ago
  > Problem is, the state has shrublands and, grasslands and forests which historically have been prone to natural fires. Fires happen. People also like building and living in these areas. < The rainy season in California is shrinking and becoming more erratic due to climate change. Temperatures in the fall are at record highs and winds are above average turning small/ manageable fires into unstoppable hellstorms that cover 10s of thousands of acres and travel at 20mph+. We're 10+ years into this and PG&E has been allowed to increase their rates to mitigate fire risks, but instead of using that money to increase maintenance and modernize, PG&E cut big fat checks to shareholders. Other power companies in similar areas such as SMUD haven't had similar fire issues because they haven't neglected maintenance. PG&E management has failed the public by letting their infrastructure turn into a massive risk. They've failed their customers by delivering un-reliable & unsafe service. They've failed their shareholders by creating a massive-unrecoverable liability. PG&E management needs to get replaced all the way to the board level.
- jasonpeacock 7y ago
  PG&E has consistently not invested in maintaining the land around their power lines. This is an entirely preventable problem and caused by a lack of long term investment in infrastructure maintenance. They've admitted they don't have the time, money, nor manpower to go out and play catch up with all the maintenance that they have deferred, and now the public (their customers) is suffering. They deserve to go bankrupt from this.
  - mc32 7y ago

3rd time in 3 weeks. I joked that the difference between a 1st world and 3rd world country is that a 1st world country will tell you before they cut you power for 2 days.

jjoonathan 7y ago

This is not a United States problem, this is a California problem.

GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
yeah i said its a joke.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  is it? I live in California and I can no longer count know how many times visitors have come to California and been completely perplexed at how “third world” parts of it are Including people from some extremely impoverished countries So rolling blackouts from a series of poorly thought out policies is very congruent
  - GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
    yeah i live east of sacramento in the mountains. I'm in the zone thats had the most hours of power cut by PG&E. The state is falling apart. Its changed so much in the last 20 years. I would rather the Sierra Nevadas be part of Nevada and let the bay area and LA leave us alone.
  - vecinu 7y ago
    I live in SF and have said that too many parts of it seem like a third world country. The biggest shame is how much money there is in the Bay Area and how many (already solved problems) exist here.
snsr 7y ago
united | yo͞oˈnīdəd | adjective joined together politically, for a common purpose, or by common feelings
- CamelCaseName 7y ago
  What's the point of this comment? GP's point was that this issue is limited to California, and is not a broader issue with US infrastructure.
  - snsr 7y ago
    Problems in states are problems in the United States. I would say particularly so when concerning mismanagement of public resources entrusted to private management.
- jjoonathan 7y ago
  California, you know the rest of us still love you, but sometimes you're a bit crazy. Sometimes you're crazy in a good way, sometimes you're crazy in a bad way, and sometimes it's hard to tell, but here's a situation where you might want to return to the fold. Nobody else is having giant, regular blackouts.
russianbot4533 7y ago
California can't (or soon won't) be able to maintain the veneer of the first world, with the third world population. Flag away and downvote, but the problem won't go away!
ogre_codes 7y ago
The poorly maintained power infrastructure is due to a poorly regulated monopoly placing shareholder returns over delivering safe and reliable infrastructure to its customers. Arguably a California problem since the regulation is mostly at a state level. The drought, above average heat, and likely the dry late season winds which are huge contributors to this problem are due to global warming which is symptom of a global problem which the United States government refuses to address.
- ratsmack 7y ago
  I believe there are some dams in California that are in severe disrepair caused from years of spending money in all the wrong paces.

lokar 7y ago

The difference is in a 1st world country the electric utility is properly regulated with effective oversight so this won't happen.

GrayTextIsTruth 7y ago
woosh. thats the joke
at-fates-hands 7y ago
Didn't California fix its regulation issues after the whole Enron debacle?
- lokar 7y ago
  PG&E as been pulling (large) cash profits out for years while neglecting basic maintenance on the transmission network. The lack of maintenance has lead directly to the fires. The regulator decides how much maintenance they need to get done, and how much cash they can take out.
  - at-fates-hands 7y ago
    > he lack of maintenance has lead directly to the fires. Since they've been responsible for a number of fires in recent years, how are they not being fined or held accountable or for not properly maintaining their infrastructure?
    - unlinked_dll 7y ago
      They are currently involved in legal proceedings. That's why they declared bankruptcy earlier this year, it was preparation for massive fines.
    - lokar 7y ago
      The regulator could say "do a better job" Then PG&E would say: "ok, let us raise rates so it does not impact profit" If they disagree on that, it's a long administrative and legal process to work it out. Also, many of the employees of the regulator are either: - former (and future!) energy company employees - owe their jobs to politicians who take $ from the energy companies It is a complex, opaque process (to decide on require maintenance levels) that ends up controlled by the people who care the most about it.

mc32 7y ago

Problem is, the state has shrublands and, grasslands and forests which historically have been prone to natural fires. Fires happen. People also like building and living in these areas. The state regulates PG&E, sets rates, and also establishes liability on the utility for incidental fires. So the state regulates them, they follow regulation but when something anticipated happens they’re still liable. So the natural thing to do in that conundrum, as the Wargames villain quoth: the only winning move is to not play. Ergo they take their energy and go home.

ogre_codes 7y ago
> Problem is, the state has shrublands and, grasslands and forests which historically have been prone to natural fires. Fires happen. People also like building and living in these areas. < The rainy season in California is shrinking and becoming more erratic due to climate change. Temperatures in the fall are at record highs and winds are above average turning small/ manageable fires into unstoppable hellstorms that cover 10s of thousands of acres and travel at 20mph+. We're 10+ years into this and PG&E has been allowed to increase their rates to mitigate fire risks, but instead of using that money to increase maintenance and modernize, PG&E cut big fat checks to shareholders. Other power companies in similar areas such as SMUD haven't had similar fire issues because they haven't neglected maintenance. PG&E management has failed the public by letting their infrastructure turn into a massive risk. They've failed their customers by delivering un-reliable & unsafe service. They've failed their shareholders by creating a massive-unrecoverable liability. PG&E management needs to get replaced all the way to the board level.
jasonpeacock 7y ago
PG&E has consistently not invested in maintaining the land around their power lines. This is an entirely preventable problem and caused by a lack of long term investment in infrastructure maintenance. They've admitted they don't have the time, money, nor manpower to go out and play catch up with all the maintenance that they have deferred, and now the public (their customers) is suffering. They deserve to go bankrupt from this.
- mc32 7y ago