4 ms·

Desktop software has never recovered from Office adopting the terrible Ribbon element instead of proper menus and toolbars.

mark-r 7y ago
Have you run into lots of desktop apps using a Ribbon style interface, other than Office? Microsoft didn't do themselves any favors by trying to patent the design and keep an iron fist on it.
- thrower123 7y ago
  I do see a lot of Windows software and utilities that have tried to copy it; there's a set of Telerik controls implementing most of the pattern. It's just unfortunate, because it started the trend of reducing and hiding functionality. With less examples of what high density software looked and worked like, people don't even know what they are missing. Then they briefly tried to push the one interface for every device holy grail with Windows 8 and UWP. Thankfully that was abortove, but it's still poisoned things more and hurt information density in its fallout.
  - sjy 7y ago
    How does the ribbon hide functionality compared to menus? I’m a big fan of it because it exposed functionality like styles, using large buttons that intuitively show how the function works, to people who were never going to independently discover them and customise their menu for easier access.
    - coribuci 7y ago
      > How does the ribbon hide functionality compared to menus? Did you tried to use it ? For every god damn thing i try to find in the ribbon i lose 5 minutes. That's what i call "hiding functionality" .
      - sjy 7y ago
        Yes, I’ve been using it almost every day for a decade, so I know where everything is by this point – but even when it was released I liked it almost immediately, because it surfaced useful style, paragraph spacing and table editing functions that used to be buried in menus. I prefer the ribbon interface in LibreOffice now, too. Next time you get lost (and it still happens to me just as it did in the menu era), I suggest using the search box instead of your memory of Office 2003.
    - mark-r 7y ago
      Ribbons aren't easily scannable, because the controls don't line up. Menus line up vertically, toolbars line up horizontally. Granted multi-level menus are evil because what you're looking for may be in a submenu.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    If Ribbons are implemented well, they're great. But often they're not, and then they're terrible. It takes a lot of work to properly organise a Ribbon for a complex program. Microsoft nailed it for Office, but programs like AutoCAD are still not well done. Microsoft have put together an awesome guide to the Ribbon. Even if you're not making one, it's a great read that really goes into the reasons it exists: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/cmd-ribbons https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/cmd-r.... I came across this page by chance when I was in high school, and I think it was what sparked my interest in user interface and user experience design.
- buboard 7y ago
  Foxit PDF reader does it and it's annoying as hell.
pkamb 7y ago
The Ribbon is great. At it's heart it's like a menu and toolbar, but with big recognizable icons, differently sized touch targets depending on importance, and always-on-screen familiarity. It would work really well as a "menu" for a touch-based OS, even.
- thrower123 7y ago
  No, I cannot disagree with this more strongly. There's nothing good about it that you couldn't do better with customizable toolbars before. If there are ways to customize it now, I'm not smart enough to do it anymore.
  - com2kid 7y ago
    > If there are ways to customize it now, I'm not smart enough to do it anymore. Right click, customize the ribbon. You can set it up however you want. Or just set it to show only tabs and treat it like a fancy menu bar. Or hide it completely and just use the command search feature Office apps have in them now. It is like a command line with amazing auto-complete. Alt-q to jump to search.
    - frosted-flakes 7y ago
      Or just use the Quick Access Toolbar. I have it set up with all of my most used commands that I know the icon for.
jplayer01 7y ago
I don't see the connection between the ribbon and the awful Metro design style. They couldn't be further apart in every way. It might look unfamiliar, but it still packs a ton of functionality into a small space, emphasizes the use of deeply structured alt menus and has tons of customizability. None of which shows up in Metro. Also, I want to know what brain dead MS designer decided that multitasking different control panel windows was a Bad Thing, and put the whole settings section into a single window that can't be separated. Do these people even use their own OS?

mark-r 7y ago

Have you run into lots of desktop apps using a Ribbon style interface, other than Office? Microsoft didn't do themselves any favors by trying to patent the design and keep an iron fist on it.

thrower123 7y ago
I do see a lot of Windows software and utilities that have tried to copy it; there's a set of Telerik controls implementing most of the pattern. It's just unfortunate, because it started the trend of reducing and hiding functionality. With less examples of what high density software looked and worked like, people don't even know what they are missing. Then they briefly tried to push the one interface for every device holy grail with Windows 8 and UWP. Thankfully that was abortove, but it's still poisoned things more and hurt information density in its fallout.
- sjy 7y ago
  How does the ribbon hide functionality compared to menus? I’m a big fan of it because it exposed functionality like styles, using large buttons that intuitively show how the function works, to people who were never going to independently discover them and customise their menu for easier access.
  - coribuci 7y ago
    > How does the ribbon hide functionality compared to menus? Did you tried to use it ? For every god damn thing i try to find in the ribbon i lose 5 minutes. That's what i call "hiding functionality" .
    - sjy 7y ago
      Yes, I’ve been using it almost every day for a decade, so I know where everything is by this point – but even when it was released I liked it almost immediately, because it surfaced useful style, paragraph spacing and table editing functions that used to be buried in menus. I prefer the ribbon interface in LibreOffice now, too. Next time you get lost (and it still happens to me just as it did in the menu era), I suggest using the search box instead of your memory of Office 2003.
  - mark-r 7y ago
    Ribbons aren't easily scannable, because the controls don't line up. Menus line up vertically, toolbars line up horizontally. Granted multi-level menus are evil because what you're looking for may be in a submenu.
- frosted-flakes 7y ago
  If Ribbons are implemented well, they're great. But often they're not, and then they're terrible. It takes a lot of work to properly organise a Ribbon for a complex program. Microsoft nailed it for Office, but programs like AutoCAD are still not well done. Microsoft have put together an awesome guide to the Ribbon. Even if you're not making one, it's a great read that really goes into the reasons it exists: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/cmd-ribbons https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/cmd-r.... I came across this page by chance when I was in high school, and I think it was what sparked my interest in user interface and user experience design.
buboard 7y ago
Foxit PDF reader does it and it's annoying as hell.

pkamb 7y ago

The Ribbon is great. At it's heart it's like a menu and toolbar, but with big recognizable icons, differently sized touch targets depending on importance, and always-on-screen familiarity. It would work really well as a "menu" for a touch-based OS, even.

thrower123 7y ago
No, I cannot disagree with this more strongly. There's nothing good about it that you couldn't do better with customizable toolbars before. If there are ways to customize it now, I'm not smart enough to do it anymore.
- com2kid 7y ago
  > If there are ways to customize it now, I'm not smart enough to do it anymore. Right click, customize the ribbon. You can set it up however you want. Or just set it to show only tabs and treat it like a fancy menu bar. Or hide it completely and just use the command search feature Office apps have in them now. It is like a command line with amazing auto-complete. Alt-q to jump to search.
  - frosted-flakes 7y ago
    Or just use the Quick Access Toolbar. I have it set up with all of my most used commands that I know the icon for.

jplayer01 7y ago

I don't see the connection between the ribbon and the awful Metro design style. They couldn't be further apart in every way. It might look unfamiliar, but it still packs a ton of functionality into a small space, emphasizes the use of deeply structured alt menus and has tons of customizability. None of which shows up in Metro. Also, I want to know what brain dead MS designer decided that multitasking different control panel windows was a Bad Thing, and put the whole settings section into a single window that can't be separated. Do these people even use their own OS?