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I wonder about this. By all accounts construction of homes in China is so haphazard buildings frequently become uninhabitable, and occasionally literally collap

by dbspin 7y ago

I wonder about this. By all accounts construction of homes in China is so haphazard buildings frequently become uninhabitable, and occasionally literally collapse within a few years. Clearly China has a lot of money and has exhibited the capacity for some large scale construction projects. But to what extent it is merely attempting to outrun a construction bubble, and ensnare developing world countries in debt; versus building a sustainable economic model, is questionable. At the bottom end, manufacturing is moving out of China to countries like Vietnam. While high tech manufacturing is still China's forte, this is largely confined to special economic zones like Shenzien, and reliant on lack of enforcement of patent and copyright, as well as government subsidies for import and exports of components and manufactured goods. We're all familiar with the impossibly cheap components and electronic devices available through services like Ali. I'm not sure any of this is sustainable - whether in an environmental sense, or economically. There is much that is illusory about the Chinese economy, and the recent clamp down of state control may well be an effort for the CCP to maintain control during the inevitable economic collapse they see coming.

helen___keller 7y ago
> By all accounts construction of homes in China is so haphazard buildings frequently become uninhabitable, and occasionally literally collapse within a few years. Well, I'm not convinced that this effect is necessarily widespread. Certainly more common than in the west where we have strict building regulations and such, but this is the flip side of getting a lot of housing built cheaply, which is necessary for China. An analogue might be construction in the states during our industrial revolution - we had all sorts of horrid issues, from barely-livable tenements with no ventilation to massive fires that killed tons of poor workers. Most of the stuff we built back then doesn't come close to conforming with modern building code. In any case, it's not a big problem I saw personally in China, but I'm n=1 here. I stayed in a relatives' apartment building from the 90s that was holding up fine, as well as perfectly nice newer apartments that relatives enjoyed in tier3 cities and older houses and townhouses that aged well. I imagine this is the kind of thing that western media likes to play up, but isn't as visible for people on the ground (another example is the social credit system - I couldn't find any evidence the social credit system even exists yet during my time in China, much less the horrifying things we see reported regularly.) > But to what extent it is merely attempting to outrun a construction bubble, and ensnare developing world countries in debt; versus building a sustainable economic model, is questionable. Strongly agreed, hence my comments that the next 2-6 decades of slowing growth will be very telling on the "Chinese dream". I don't think Chinese success is guaranteed - I think the CCP has made a lot of frightful financial gambles. My big fear is that it does, somehow, pay off, and the world turns to China as a model of how to run a country as a result.

by dbspin 7y ago

helen___keller 7y ago

> By all accounts construction of homes in China is so haphazard buildings frequently become uninhabitable, and occasionally literally collapse within a few years. Well, I'm not convinced that this effect is necessarily widespread. Certainly more common than in the west where we have strict building regulations and such, but this is the flip side of getting a lot of housing built cheaply, which is necessary for China. An analogue might be construction in the states during our industrial revolution - we had all sorts of horrid issues, from barely-livable tenements with no ventilation to massive fires that killed tons of poor workers. Most of the stuff we built back then doesn't come close to conforming with modern building code. In any case, it's not a big problem I saw personally in China, but I'm n=1 here. I stayed in a relatives' apartment building from the 90s that was holding up fine, as well as perfectly nice newer apartments that relatives enjoyed in tier3 cities and older houses and townhouses that aged well. I imagine this is the kind of thing that western media likes to play up, but isn't as visible for people on the ground (another example is the social credit system - I couldn't find any evidence the social credit system even exists yet during my time in China, much less the horrifying things we see reported regularly.) > But to what extent it is merely attempting to outrun a construction bubble, and ensnare developing world countries in debt; versus building a sustainable economic model, is questionable. Strongly agreed, hence my comments that the next 2-6 decades of slowing growth will be very telling on the "Chinese dream". I don't think Chinese success is guaranteed - I think the CCP has made a lot of frightful financial gambles. My big fear is that it does, somehow, pay off, and the world turns to China as a model of how to run a country as a result.