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Yes. Tunisian protestors repeatedly talked about Facebook's important role. Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube (unlike email) allows people to see updates without

by jdp23 16y ago

Yes. Tunisian protestors repeatedly talked about Facebook's important role. Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube (unlike email) allows people to see updates without having to know about the email list. So that makes it much easier for a movement to get the word out beyond its core supporters and for like-minded people to find each other: "Oh look, my neighbor/colleague/second cousin just posted an article from Al Jazeera on Facebook. Funny, I didn't know she was political. Maybe we should talk." Most younger people these days do most of their news and communication via social network sites. As an activist, that's where you want to be. And about email's supposed advantages: > Free, If you have a server to host it, and the networking connectivity to get to it. What percentage of activists in Tunisa do? > safe (SSL) If you keep the server secure. > distributed (choose any provider you like) All Tunisian ISPs are owned by the government

mayank 16y ago
I'd imagine posting on HN asking for an SSL secured server and forum/SN hosting for activists would find at least a few takers.
- jdp23 16y ago
  maybe. How would they work together in a situation where communications are monitored and they don't have any language in common? How many Tunisian activists other than Slim know about HN? If somebody stepped forward, how would the activists know whether to trust them? Remember Haystack, where an American techie stepped forward and wrote anonymizing software to Iranian activists that turned out to have a major bug in it exposing them all to the government ... So, it's a reasonable suggestion, and I might try it next time I'm running an activist campaign. But Facebook looks like an easier alternative to me.
  - mayank 16y ago
    I genuinely wish you the best of luck, and hope that your decision to use Facebook doesn't have repercussions down the line. And your point about Haystack is well taken -- from what I remember reading, it was more hype than security software, and almost bordering on fraud.
cryptoz 16y ago
> If you have a server to host it, and the networking connectivity to get to it. What percentage of activists in Tunisa do? Well, they have Facebook, don't they? > All Tunisian ISPs are owned by the government They don't need to use their ISP's service. They can sign up for any one of thousands of secure, out-of-the-country accounts. Nearly all your reasons for rejecting email apply to Facebook too. > Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube (unlike email) allows people to see updates without having to know about the email list No. Not at all. "The email list" in the case of a revolution should obviously include everyone you know. Facebook is closed off to only the people you know. It doesn't matter if you don't know that someone is politically active. It's a motherfucking revolution, they're going to be interested. Email them.
- jdp23 16y ago
  You're not thinking like a Tunisian activist. Most of them have Facebook but don't have servers -- or skills to administer it. They may not have a credit card to pay for these secure out-of-the-country hosting accounts; if they do, the government will be monitoring their transactions so they'll get exposed anyhow. > "The email list" in the case of a revolution should obviously include everyone you know. Nonsense. In a country like Tunisia you may well be putting somebody's job at risk if you send political mail to their work account, so you have to be a lot more discerning. And this has been going on for over a month - if an activist sent all the updates to all of their friends in email, people would have long since stopped reading.
  - cryptoz 16y ago
    How are you so sure that the government monitors email but not Facebook? Especially since email CAN be encrypted, but Facebook cannot? Why do you think the government ignores Facebook completely when monitoring connections? In many cases sending Facebook messages allows the government to eavesdrop even easier. In times of revolution, encrypt your communications. Even Gmail has full SSL - if you trust Google. If not, there are others. How can anyone know what someone's email reads when it was sent over SSL? I never mentioned "work email" either, that's probably a silly idea. But everyone has a personal account too.

by jdp23 16y ago

mayank 16y ago

I'd imagine posting on HN asking for an SSL secured server and forum/SN hosting for activists would find at least a few takers.

jdp23 16y ago
maybe. How would they work together in a situation where communications are monitored and they don't have any language in common? How many Tunisian activists other than Slim know about HN? If somebody stepped forward, how would the activists know whether to trust them? Remember Haystack, where an American techie stepped forward and wrote anonymizing software to Iranian activists that turned out to have a major bug in it exposing them all to the government ... So, it's a reasonable suggestion, and I might try it next time I'm running an activist campaign. But Facebook looks like an easier alternative to me.
- mayank 16y ago
  I genuinely wish you the best of luck, and hope that your decision to use Facebook doesn't have repercussions down the line. And your point about Haystack is well taken -- from what I remember reading, it was more hype than security software, and almost bordering on fraud.

cryptoz 16y ago

> If you have a server to host it, and the networking connectivity to get to it. What percentage of activists in Tunisa do? Well, they have Facebook, don't they? > All Tunisian ISPs are owned by the government They don't need to use their ISP's service. They can sign up for any one of thousands of secure, out-of-the-country accounts. Nearly all your reasons for rejecting email apply to Facebook too. > Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube (unlike email) allows people to see updates without having to know about the email list No. Not at all. "The email list" in the case of a revolution should obviously include everyone you know. Facebook is closed off to only the people you know. It doesn't matter if you don't know that someone is politically active. It's a motherfucking revolution, they're going to be interested. Email them.

jdp23 16y ago
You're not thinking like a Tunisian activist. Most of them have Facebook but don't have servers -- or skills to administer it. They may not have a credit card to pay for these secure out-of-the-country hosting accounts; if they do, the government will be monitoring their transactions so they'll get exposed anyhow. > "The email list" in the case of a revolution should obviously include everyone you know. Nonsense. In a country like Tunisia you may well be putting somebody's job at risk if you send political mail to their work account, so you have to be a lot more discerning. And this has been going on for over a month - if an activist sent all the updates to all of their friends in email, people would have long since stopped reading.
- cryptoz 16y ago
  How are you so sure that the government monitors email but not Facebook? Especially since email CAN be encrypted, but Facebook cannot? Why do you think the government ignores Facebook completely when monitoring connections? In many cases sending Facebook messages allows the government to eavesdrop even easier. In times of revolution, encrypt your communications. Even Gmail has full SSL - if you trust Google. If not, there are others. How can anyone know what someone's email reads when it was sent over SSL? I never mentioned "work email" either, that's probably a silly idea. But everyone has a personal account too.