5 ms·

This is commonly believed but untrue. A certain volume of vehicles will drastically slow a road, regardless of how well people drive. Unless by "drove in a way

This is commonly believed but untrue. A certain volume of vehicles will drastically slow a road, regardless of how well people drive. Unless by "drove in a way that focused on keeping traffic flowing" you mean "wait in the on-ramp merge lane until rush hour ends". A corollary of the above fact is that autonomous cars won't save us. They might make traffic better by about 20%, but induced demand allows us to predict that speeds during rush hour won't actually get better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

mkagenius 7y ago
Cars are truly one of the mistakes the human civilization latched on to. With fossil fuels going out of fashion, cars need to go too. We do not need car not even battery powered car. Maybe one car per 100 people is what should be okay for emergency purposes.
- t34543 7y ago
  This is terribly inconsiderate of people with disabilities.
  - pxndxx 7y ago
    This argument keeps popping up, and it's a waste of thought. We'd OBVIOUSLY have cars or other kinds of provisions for disabled people! Do you actually think anti-car people are actually that stupid or inconsiderate? EDIT: BuT WHaT abOuT DeLiVeRiEs?
    - monocasa 7y ago
      > Do you actually think anti-car people are actually that stupid or inconsiderate? Yes, I see a lot of abelism on NUMTOTs and the like. And I already get a ton of vitriol because my disability isn't very visible.
      - mcintyre1994 7y ago
        NUMTOTs?
        monocasa 7y ago
        https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jul/05/meet-the-numtots-the-millennials-who-find-fixing-public-transit-sexy-urbanist-memes https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jul/05/meet-the-numt...
    - glogla 7y ago
      > Do you actually think anti-car people are actually that stupid or inconsiderate? Yes, I do. I hope it is not shocking for you that people are treating you based on how you behave? "We should make cities walkable and transport efficient and there are more efficient options than individual car travel" - probably someone smart and considerate. "Cars were mistake from the beginning!!! Ban all death machines!!!!eleventy" - probably someone stupid and/or inconsiderate.
    - t34543 7y ago
      Yes, I do, because of hateful comments such as yours towards cars.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Thankfully this extremist position is going to remain an unimportant minority for the rest of my lifetime.
  - lazyjones 7y ago
    That kind of extremist minorities are far too often found working in journalism, so-called science (rather academic activism), politics etc. ... So I'm not too optimistic about these trends.
- weberc2 7y ago
  Maybe it's not your objective, but comments like this would be a lot more convincing if they were accompanied by a proposal for replacing cars and especially a steel man of the pro-car position.
- marcoperaza 7y ago
  Why? So that people can be forced to live in cramped cities, constantly share their space with rude, smelly, or violent strangers, and suffer the loss of freedom that necessarily entails? Not all of us are so enthralled with the rest of us. At some point in the last decade, I went from wanting to be constantly surrounded by others (youthful insecurity) to having my own life, doing my own thing, and not wanting to deal with other people’s bs. The very wealthy can have a similar experience living in a city, but for everyone else, it means loss of independence and freedom. Plenty of people accept those tradeoffs, but please don’t shove it down the the rest of our throats.
  - Frondo 7y ago
    I can walk 10 minutes to get on a train that gets me many places in the city, 5 minutes in a different direction to get on multiple buses to go places the trains don't. No need to worry about parking. Need something from the grocery store? 5 minute walk. Need something late at night? Store's still open, still a 5 minute walk. Need food late at night? I have the freedom of choice. I feel no loss of independence by having city life all around me. If anything, living in a city has greatly improved my freedom. I don't need a car to get most places, I can do a variety of art and culture virtually every day of the week. If I wanted to do large woodcrafts, access a tool library, access a laser cutter or a 3d printer, there's a maker's co-op about a 15 minute walk from my place with far more tools than I'd ever be able to amass even in a suburban house. You may not prefer city life, but in no way does it represent a lack of independence or freedom.
    - marcoperaza 7y ago
      I live in a city right now, and sure, the grocery store is right there, but it’s also very expensive and has a tiny selection. I can get all of the same foods for much less in the suburbs and much more conveniently than carrying several heavy bags for multiple blocks. Anyhow, I’m not saying there aren’t reasons to want to live in a city. I’m saying there are also good reasons not to want to, and I’m reacting to the suggestion that the means to do so be abolished.
      - 7y ago
johnmaguire2013 7y ago
Is it untrue? For example, traffic waves cause traffic jams. Traffic waves could be avoided, or significantly lessened, if people left more room while driving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  That only applies up to a certain density of vehicles. Due to differences in acceleration and deceleration of cars, trucks, other types of vehicles, and inclines and declines, after the number of vehicles surpasses the maximum capacity at a certain speed, the will have to slow down and speed up and slow down and speed, and there is no choice but to sit through until you get to a piece of the road that isn't congested. My point is there is no solution fixing traffic jams in most cities or rush hours. If you've been to a poorer country with lax traffic law enforcement, you will see the extreme end of the situation play out where you can pretty much model all the vehicles as a fluid as they slowly ease by each other with whatever space they can find.

mkagenius 7y ago

Cars are truly one of the mistakes the human civilization latched on to. With fossil fuels going out of fashion, cars need to go too. We do not need car not even battery powered car. Maybe one car per 100 people is what should be okay for emergency purposes.

t34543 7y ago
This is terribly inconsiderate of people with disabilities.
- pxndxx 7y ago
  This argument keeps popping up, and it's a waste of thought. We'd OBVIOUSLY have cars or other kinds of provisions for disabled people! Do you actually think anti-car people are actually that stupid or inconsiderate? EDIT: BuT WHaT abOuT DeLiVeRiEs?
  - monocasa 7y ago
    > Do you actually think anti-car people are actually that stupid or inconsiderate? Yes, I see a lot of abelism on NUMTOTs and the like. And I already get a ton of vitriol because my disability isn't very visible.
    - mcintyre1994 7y ago
      NUMTOTs?
      - monocasa 7y ago
        https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jul/05/meet-the-numtots-the-millennials-who-find-fixing-public-transit-sexy-urbanist-memes https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jul/05/meet-the-numt...
  - glogla 7y ago
    > Do you actually think anti-car people are actually that stupid or inconsiderate? Yes, I do. I hope it is not shocking for you that people are treating you based on how you behave? "We should make cities walkable and transport efficient and there are more efficient options than individual car travel" - probably someone smart and considerate. "Cars were mistake from the beginning!!! Ban all death machines!!!!eleventy" - probably someone stupid and/or inconsiderate.
  - t34543 7y ago
    Yes, I do, because of hateful comments such as yours towards cars.
jimmaswell 7y ago
Thankfully this extremist position is going to remain an unimportant minority for the rest of my lifetime.
- lazyjones 7y ago
  That kind of extremist minorities are far too often found working in journalism, so-called science (rather academic activism), politics etc. ... So I'm not too optimistic about these trends.
weberc2 7y ago
Maybe it's not your objective, but comments like this would be a lot more convincing if they were accompanied by a proposal for replacing cars and especially a steel man of the pro-car position.
marcoperaza 7y ago
Why? So that people can be forced to live in cramped cities, constantly share their space with rude, smelly, or violent strangers, and suffer the loss of freedom that necessarily entails? Not all of us are so enthralled with the rest of us. At some point in the last decade, I went from wanting to be constantly surrounded by others (youthful insecurity) to having my own life, doing my own thing, and not wanting to deal with other people’s bs. The very wealthy can have a similar experience living in a city, but for everyone else, it means loss of independence and freedom. Plenty of people accept those tradeoffs, but please don’t shove it down the the rest of our throats.
- Frondo 7y ago
  I can walk 10 minutes to get on a train that gets me many places in the city, 5 minutes in a different direction to get on multiple buses to go places the trains don't. No need to worry about parking. Need something from the grocery store? 5 minute walk. Need something late at night? Store's still open, still a 5 minute walk. Need food late at night? I have the freedom of choice. I feel no loss of independence by having city life all around me. If anything, living in a city has greatly improved my freedom. I don't need a car to get most places, I can do a variety of art and culture virtually every day of the week. If I wanted to do large woodcrafts, access a tool library, access a laser cutter or a 3d printer, there's a maker's co-op about a 15 minute walk from my place with far more tools than I'd ever be able to amass even in a suburban house. You may not prefer city life, but in no way does it represent a lack of independence or freedom.
  - marcoperaza 7y ago
    I live in a city right now, and sure, the grocery store is right there, but it’s also very expensive and has a tiny selection. I can get all of the same foods for much less in the suburbs and much more conveniently than carrying several heavy bags for multiple blocks. Anyhow, I’m not saying there aren’t reasons to want to live in a city. I’m saying there are also good reasons not to want to, and I’m reacting to the suggestion that the means to do so be abolished.
    - 7y ago

johnmaguire2013 7y ago

Is it untrue? For example, traffic waves cause traffic jams. Traffic waves could be avoided, or significantly lessened, if people left more room while driving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_wave

lotsofpulp 7y ago
That only applies up to a certain density of vehicles. Due to differences in acceleration and deceleration of cars, trucks, other types of vehicles, and inclines and declines, after the number of vehicles surpasses the maximum capacity at a certain speed, the will have to slow down and speed up and slow down and speed, and there is no choice but to sit through until you get to a piece of the road that isn't congested. My point is there is no solution fixing traffic jams in most cities or rush hours. If you've been to a poorer country with lax traffic law enforcement, you will see the extreme end of the situation play out where you can pretty much model all the vehicles as a fluid as they slowly ease by each other with whatever space they can find.