4 ms·

With the proliferation of different screen sizes and zoom factors, these kinds of usability problems will continue to happen. The only way I see around this is

by Udo 7y ago

With the proliferation of different screen sizes and zoom factors, these kinds of usability problems will continue to happen. The only way I see around this is by re-introducing the 'obvious scroll bar' element, or alternatively a different kind of indicator that advertises where the current view is in relation to the entire content.

onion2k 7y ago
The user doesn't need to know where they are on the page. They just need to know they're not at the bottom. A line along the bottom of the page when there's more content available would work. You could have the same at the top too.
- Udo 7y ago
  It's debatable whether it's bad that the user knows where exactly they are. The problem with just showing a bar at the bottom is that iOS already uses a bar at the bottom to invoke the app switcher. Maybe a small triangle in the corner would help.
  - jarfil 7y ago
    The user probably wants to know where they are in a list while scrolling, but otherwise it shouldn't be a problem to reclaim that screen space by hiding the scroll bar when they're done.
    - Udo 7y ago
      That reflects how things work on macOS and iOS right now, the scroll bar disappears when you stop scrolling. However, that does not apply to "pop-in" elements like the share pane. It operates like a slidable component on-top of the current app, it does not even have a scroll bar in theory, because from its point of view there is nothing to scroll. Whether that's a good choice to begin with is open to debate, but I assume Apple's design team would be averse to showing a positioning indicator due to the fact that it would break their skeuomorphism.
lallysingh 7y ago
Like a tiny down triangle in the corner? This stuff is super not hard. You just have to give a shit.
- helpPeople 7y ago
  Sounds like Linux excuses "you just aren't using it right"
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    You mean Apple excuses? That's a Steve Jobs quote. Linux UX is rough in parts and the answer is "it's a $0 volunteer group project, we need your help to make it better."
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      No, it's definitely a Linux thing too. Linux Desktop community in general doesn't care what anyone's experience is except their own, and if you're not a C programmer who's willing to fork the code to make the change you want (because they almost certainly won't accept your patch), then screw you. Common phrases heard on Linux Desktop software issue trackers and forums: "Why would you want that?" "You don't want to do that, do it <the way I do it>." "Works on my machine." "PRs are welcome." "We've rejected your PR because there isn't any demand for this." This is the community that thinks .desktop files are a good idea and largely uses the GUI as a really fancy tmux. They're hopeless.
- dean177 7y ago
  It’s incredibly hard to make a great user experience look great. Lots of people can’t tell the difference between something looking awesome and working well.
  - lallysingh 7y ago
    User interfaces are testable. There's a whole field of practice on this. Considering how sloppy this is (and Apple's recent trends in slop) I bet they didn't test it on all their screen sizes
really3452 7y ago
> The only way I see around this is by re-introducing the 'obvious scroll bar' element... Or Apple could do the right thing and go back to a 3.5" screen size on all their phones, no exceptions. Even a 4" screen size would be better than these clown-phone monstrosities. IOS could then just dead-pixel all pixels outside of the center 3.5" screen on all existing clown-phones for backwards compatibility.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Is this supposed to be sarcasm? People it's clearly an unpopular opinion, and those bigger screens literally fly off the shelves...
  - tyfon 7y ago
    Personally I hate the big phones, but I would prefer to have a dumb phone with physical buttons if I didn't need all the two factor apps, public transportation ticket apps, car apps and whatnot. Right now I am looking at the Sony Xperia 1 as it seems to be the best "smallish" phone now a days. Yes, I know I am in the minority.
  - really3452 7y ago
    > Is this supposed to be sarcasm? Nope. A few years ago I used to really want a large-screened phone. Then I got one with a 5" screen and found out its clunky and awful to carry around. Standardizing the screen back to 4" or 3.5" would greatly improve my tolerance for carrying it around and, if the resolution were also standardized, would greatly simplify UX design.
    - lallysingh 7y ago
      I hear you. I think our best shot will be folding phones.
enriquto 7y ago
oh, yes, please, give people back their scrollbars!
vxNsr 7y ago
I hear you except that apple controls all the screen sizes and zoom factors. They know right off the bat what it's gonna look like on all the screens in the world because they have every screen this will show on... also if you forget zoom it's still only like 5 screen sizes: SE, 6, X, XS Plus, and XR. How did they not test this on 5 different screen sizes, of which two it's entirely un-intuitive?

by Udo 7y ago

onion2k 7y ago

The user doesn't need to know where they are on the page. They just need to know they're not at the bottom. A line along the bottom of the page when there's more content available would work. You could have the same at the top too.

Udo 7y ago
It's debatable whether it's bad that the user knows where exactly they are. The problem with just showing a bar at the bottom is that iOS already uses a bar at the bottom to invoke the app switcher. Maybe a small triangle in the corner would help.
- jarfil 7y ago
  The user probably wants to know where they are in a list while scrolling, but otherwise it shouldn't be a problem to reclaim that screen space by hiding the scroll bar when they're done.
  - Udo 7y ago
    That reflects how things work on macOS and iOS right now, the scroll bar disappears when you stop scrolling. However, that does not apply to "pop-in" elements like the share pane. It operates like a slidable component on-top of the current app, it does not even have a scroll bar in theory, because from its point of view there is nothing to scroll. Whether that's a good choice to begin with is open to debate, but I assume Apple's design team would be averse to showing a positioning indicator due to the fact that it would break their skeuomorphism.

lallysingh 7y ago

Like a tiny down triangle in the corner? This stuff is super not hard. You just have to give a shit.

helpPeople 7y ago
Sounds like Linux excuses "you just aren't using it right"
- lonelappde 7y ago
  You mean Apple excuses? That's a Steve Jobs quote. Linux UX is rough in parts and the answer is "it's a $0 volunteer group project, we need your help to make it better."
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    No, it's definitely a Linux thing too. Linux Desktop community in general doesn't care what anyone's experience is except their own, and if you're not a C programmer who's willing to fork the code to make the change you want (because they almost certainly won't accept your patch), then screw you. Common phrases heard on Linux Desktop software issue trackers and forums: "Why would you want that?" "You don't want to do that, do it <the way I do it>." "Works on my machine." "PRs are welcome." "We've rejected your PR because there isn't any demand for this." This is the community that thinks .desktop files are a good idea and largely uses the GUI as a really fancy tmux. They're hopeless.
dean177 7y ago
It’s incredibly hard to make a great user experience look great. Lots of people can’t tell the difference between something looking awesome and working well.
- lallysingh 7y ago
  User interfaces are testable. There's a whole field of practice on this. Considering how sloppy this is (and Apple's recent trends in slop) I bet they didn't test it on all their screen sizes

really3452 7y ago

> The only way I see around this is by re-introducing the 'obvious scroll bar' element... Or Apple could do the right thing and go back to a 3.5" screen size on all their phones, no exceptions. Even a 4" screen size would be better than these clown-phone monstrosities. IOS could then just dead-pixel all pixels outside of the center 3.5" screen on all existing clown-phones for backwards compatibility.

coldtea 7y ago
Is this supposed to be sarcasm? People it's clearly an unpopular opinion, and those bigger screens literally fly off the shelves...
- tyfon 7y ago
  Personally I hate the big phones, but I would prefer to have a dumb phone with physical buttons if I didn't need all the two factor apps, public transportation ticket apps, car apps and whatnot. Right now I am looking at the Sony Xperia 1 as it seems to be the best "smallish" phone now a days. Yes, I know I am in the minority.
- really3452 7y ago
  > Is this supposed to be sarcasm? Nope. A few years ago I used to really want a large-screened phone. Then I got one with a 5" screen and found out its clunky and awful to carry around. Standardizing the screen back to 4" or 3.5" would greatly improve my tolerance for carrying it around and, if the resolution were also standardized, would greatly simplify UX design.
  - lallysingh 7y ago
    I hear you. I think our best shot will be folding phones.

enriquto 7y ago

oh, yes, please, give people back their scrollbars!

vxNsr 7y ago

I hear you except that apple controls all the screen sizes and zoom factors. They know right off the bat what it's gonna look like on all the screens in the world because they have every screen this will show on... also if you forget zoom it's still only like 5 screen sizes: SE, 6, X, XS Plus, and XR. How did they not test this on 5 different screen sizes, of which two it's entirely un-intuitive?