5 ms·

It is beautiful, but it's a barrier also. I don't think you should be barred from learning to code because you don't speak a language which uses the Latin/ASCII

It is beautiful, but it's a barrier also. I don't think you should be barred from learning to code because you don't speak a language which uses the Latin/ASCII character set.

vectorEQ 7y ago
feel the same. there's a lot of people out there who never get a chance to learn any english. to write your own code based on ascii / latin char set might be ok, but to interpret other's code etc. would be very difficult. so for example in a school, having only code examples with ascii could be a significant barrier to teach ,when all other subjects presented are in the local language / character set.
- jakeogh 7y ago
  But it still works! Right? The constraints imposed by the programming language self document our var names. I understand Hindi YT vids that are science related. I dont know Hindi. It's fantastic. Latin1 is critical. Handing over acceptiable byte sequences that our cli's acccept to standards bodies is a mistake. https://github.com/jakeogh/angryfiles https://github.com/jakeogh/angryfiles
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  Pardon my french but that's a lame excuse. We are talking about maybe 20 crucial words like "if", "for", "while" etc. If somebody can't learn those, progressing with fully formed programming language will be a mighty challenge. The drawbacks are numerous and huge - today you can get any code from any guy on the planet, and can read it instantly. He can name variables and comment stuff in his native language, still no problem. That's extremely empowering, and to lose it just that somebody doesn't have to learn few keywords is... dumb. Having native programming languages beyond some playing around is foolish and step in wrong direction for all of us on so many levels, especially long term.
guggle 7y ago
Missing the point... Everyone has to jump that barrier so that there's no barrier between us, which is much more important.
- jrh206 7y ago
  Native English speakers don’t
  - Baeocystin 7y ago
    English keywords often have only the most tenuous links to their vernacular meaning. It's an unavoidable side effect of how different spoken and programming languages are. Compared to the difficulty of learning programming itself, remembering particular keywords is a tiny fraction of the mental burden.
  - Majestic121 7y ago
    Such is life, sometimes people have an unfair advantage. But in this case, having a common language is still much more valuable than the unfairness that this common language is the mother tongue of some.
  - grenoire 7y ago
    This is such an odd exaggeration; the number of words you have to learn to type are just abysmally small. You don't have to know what the word 'integer' is to know how it works in your code. I-N-T, three letters, this symbol means that the number does not have a fraction associated with it. As for the code base and documentation? Well, wouldn't you rather a lingua franca as opposed to trying to Google Translate your way through comments?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  I think this point is vital, and yet completely lost in the current zeitgeist. Shared foundations matter. Without them, we can't communicate effectively.
grenoire 7y ago
I disagree. Calling English keywords in programming languages a barrier is the same as describing symbols in mathematics as a barrier. It doesn't matter which word signals an IF clause, the global uniformity is what is really important. English has become the basis for the symbols of programming. You should not think of code as prose, it is simply code.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  I don't think keywords are the problem, it's library function/type names that will be much more difficult to learn / interpret.
  - PeterisP 7y ago
    A localized language would only "fix" the keywords, and all the libraries (most made by third parties) would be even more difficult to learn/interpret - because if they wouldn't be in English, they likely would not be in your language, they'd be in someone else's non-English language.
jdnenej 7y ago
There is no alternative. Mountains of code, documentation, Q&A posts, tooling have all been created in English. Even if you use a programming language that supports your own language you will be crippling your ability. Learning enough English words to use pythonh would be much easier than having to reinvent the world in your own language.
al_form2000 7y ago
You're not barred, you have to learn relevant combinations of 26 symbols. If you cannot do that, I doubt you'll become proficient in programming anyway. OTOH,knowledge sharing in the field would be severely impeded if every piece of source code was localized to the wim of the author/marketplace/whatever.

It is beautiful, but it's a barrier also. I don't think you should be barred from learning to code because you don't speak a language which uses the Latin/ASCII character set.

vectorEQ 7y ago

feel the same. there's a lot of people out there who never get a chance to learn any english. to write your own code based on ascii / latin char set might be ok, but to interpret other's code etc. would be very difficult. so for example in a school, having only code examples with ascii could be a significant barrier to teach ,when all other subjects presented are in the local language / character set.

jakeogh 7y ago
But it still works! Right? The constraints imposed by the programming language self document our var names. I understand Hindi YT vids that are science related. I dont know Hindi. It's fantastic. Latin1 is critical. Handing over acceptiable byte sequences that our cli's acccept to standards bodies is a mistake. https://github.com/jakeogh/angryfiles https://github.com/jakeogh/angryfiles
saiya-jin 7y ago
Pardon my french but that's a lame excuse. We are talking about maybe 20 crucial words like "if", "for", "while" etc. If somebody can't learn those, progressing with fully formed programming language will be a mighty challenge. The drawbacks are numerous and huge - today you can get any code from any guy on the planet, and can read it instantly. He can name variables and comment stuff in his native language, still no problem. That's extremely empowering, and to lose it just that somebody doesn't have to learn few keywords is... dumb. Having native programming languages beyond some playing around is foolish and step in wrong direction for all of us on so many levels, especially long term.

guggle 7y ago

Missing the point... Everyone has to jump that barrier so that there's no barrier between us, which is much more important.

jrh206 7y ago
Native English speakers don’t
- Baeocystin 7y ago
  English keywords often have only the most tenuous links to their vernacular meaning. It's an unavoidable side effect of how different spoken and programming languages are. Compared to the difficulty of learning programming itself, remembering particular keywords is a tiny fraction of the mental burden.
- Majestic121 7y ago
  Such is life, sometimes people have an unfair advantage. But in this case, having a common language is still much more valuable than the unfairness that this common language is the mother tongue of some.
- grenoire 7y ago
  This is such an odd exaggeration; the number of words you have to learn to type are just abysmally small. You don't have to know what the word 'integer' is to know how it works in your code. I-N-T, three letters, this symbol means that the number does not have a fraction associated with it. As for the code base and documentation? Well, wouldn't you rather a lingua franca as opposed to trying to Google Translate your way through comments?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
Baeocystin 7y ago
I think this point is vital, and yet completely lost in the current zeitgeist. Shared foundations matter. Without them, we can't communicate effectively.

grenoire 7y ago

I disagree. Calling English keywords in programming languages a barrier is the same as describing symbols in mathematics as a barrier. It doesn't matter which word signals an IF clause, the global uniformity is what is really important. English has become the basis for the symbols of programming. You should not think of code as prose, it is simply code.

nicoburns 7y ago
I don't think keywords are the problem, it's library function/type names that will be much more difficult to learn / interpret.
- PeterisP 7y ago
  A localized language would only "fix" the keywords, and all the libraries (most made by third parties) would be even more difficult to learn/interpret - because if they wouldn't be in English, they likely would not be in your language, they'd be in someone else's non-English language.

jdnenej 7y ago

There is no alternative. Mountains of code, documentation, Q&A posts, tooling have all been created in English. Even if you use a programming language that supports your own language you will be crippling your ability. Learning enough English words to use pythonh would be much easier than having to reinvent the world in your own language.

al_form2000 7y ago

You're not barred, you have to learn relevant combinations of 26 symbols. If you cannot do that, I doubt you'll become proficient in programming anyway. OTOH,knowledge sharing in the field would be severely impeded if every piece of source code was localized to the wim of the author/marketplace/whatever.