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Any translation has a profound impact on the way the bible is perceived, so perhaps it is worthwhile to look directly at the source. Take this famous opener in

Any translation has a profound impact on the way the bible is perceived, so perhaps it is worthwhile to look directly at the source. Take this famous opener in the KJV bible for example: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Well just what does it mean by Word? Turns out this is Koine Greek λόγος, logos. Logos not only means word, but it importantly also means reasoning, order, and logic. Logos has multiple senses that don't translate well into a single, word. This was a big revelation for me. https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Logos https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Logos

RandomBacon 7y ago
"reasoning, order, and logic" still make sense to me because I believe in theistic evolution - evolution is basically a tool that God used to get us where we are today. There is also Pandeism (where basically God ceased to exist because he became the universe). Scott Adam's book God Debris touches on this. FYI, (I'm not Catholic, but) the Catholic Church today holds that view that Science explains the how, and Religion explains the why. It was actually a Catholic priest that came up with the Big Bang theory. FYI continued, I believe everyone should be open-minded and respectful. I understand that my beliefs may be wrong (after all not all religions can be right at the same time). I believe people taking either side to the extreme does not help anyone, and I'm glad we can have reasonable, respectful conversations here on HN.
- HNLurker2 7y ago
  Logos comes from the stoics also.
  - Jamwinner 7y ago
    Thats not correct, anthough many stoics adopted the common term. Its akin saying 'vibrations' today. What is the cirlejerk around stoicism these days? Is life for coders really that bad?
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  > I believe everyone should be open-minded and respectful That would be probably the biggest improvement for mankind since inventions of fire and wheel, but we're unfortunately often far from there. As an atheist/agnostic, the amount of crap I had to (and sometimes still have to) go through is significant. Almost all religious people interact with me in fashion of 'oh-you-lost-foolish-boy-who-doesn't-get-the-one-and-only-truth-which-is-mine/ours, but-we-shall-be-kind-to-you-nevertheless' to some degree. That's not how respect looks like. Probably the most respectful behavior was actually from various muslims while travelling, although for them it was sometimes hard to grasp that I can be fully working human being without faith in god (at least in usual sense). Its such an integral part of their existence, more than most Christians these days I believe. Most christians are way too self-righteous, and you can't even talk with them about it because they become immediately deeply offended.
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    I'm sorry about your experiences. I think being offended about stuff and judging people isn't exclusive to religion though. I do wish that everyone would become more intelligent and thus nicer to each other (I believe if people were more intelligent, they would realize they would be better off if they were nicer), but then again, I think humans are inherently flawed and thus we'll still have problems, just of a different variety. Oh well. We have to make the best of what we can while we're here.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
war1025 7y ago
Won't do it justice, but there was a sermon I thought was pretty interesting a couple years ago relating to the passage where Jesus asks Peter if he loves him. Basically Jesus asks Peter three times whether Peter loves him. And three times Peter says "You know I love you". Seems like a pretty uneventful passage in English. Our pastor elaborated a bit and explained that in the original (greek / aramaic, don't remember which), there are several kinds of love. What Jesus is saying is basically "Do you love me perfectly, the way only God can?" What Peter is replying is basically "I love you the way that man can, imperfectly." This happens twice. The third time Jesus asks "Do you love me imperfectly, the way that a man can?" And Peter gives the same refrain. Put's a different spin on it since in the first it's just a repetitive exchange, but in the second form it's an instance of God coming down to man's level. Thought that seemed really interesting.
- DonaldFisk 7y ago
  The New Testament was written in Greek, though the original dialogue would have been in Aramaic. In the Greek version, Jesus uses the verb ἀγαπάω (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ἀγαπάω#Ancient_Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ἀγαπάω#Ancient_Greek) and Peter replies with the verb φιλέω (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/φιλέω#Ancient_Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/φιλέω#Ancient_Greek).

RandomBacon 7y ago

"reasoning, order, and logic" still make sense to me because I believe in theistic evolution - evolution is basically a tool that God used to get us where we are today. There is also Pandeism (where basically God ceased to exist because he became the universe). Scott Adam's book God Debris touches on this. FYI, (I'm not Catholic, but) the Catholic Church today holds that view that Science explains the how, and Religion explains the why. It was actually a Catholic priest that came up with the Big Bang theory. FYI continued, I believe everyone should be open-minded and respectful. I understand that my beliefs may be wrong (after all not all religions can be right at the same time). I believe people taking either side to the extreme does not help anyone, and I'm glad we can have reasonable, respectful conversations here on HN.

HNLurker2 7y ago
Logos comes from the stoics also.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Thats not correct, anthough many stoics adopted the common term. Its akin saying 'vibrations' today. What is the cirlejerk around stoicism these days? Is life for coders really that bad?
saiya-jin 7y ago
> I believe everyone should be open-minded and respectful That would be probably the biggest improvement for mankind since inventions of fire and wheel, but we're unfortunately often far from there. As an atheist/agnostic, the amount of crap I had to (and sometimes still have to) go through is significant. Almost all religious people interact with me in fashion of 'oh-you-lost-foolish-boy-who-doesn't-get-the-one-and-only-truth-which-is-mine/ours, but-we-shall-be-kind-to-you-nevertheless' to some degree. That's not how respect looks like. Probably the most respectful behavior was actually from various muslims while travelling, although for them it was sometimes hard to grasp that I can be fully working human being without faith in god (at least in usual sense). Its such an integral part of their existence, more than most Christians these days I believe. Most christians are way too self-righteous, and you can't even talk with them about it because they become immediately deeply offended.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  I'm sorry about your experiences. I think being offended about stuff and judging people isn't exclusive to religion though. I do wish that everyone would become more intelligent and thus nicer to each other (I believe if people were more intelligent, they would realize they would be better off if they were nicer), but then again, I think humans are inherently flawed and thus we'll still have problems, just of a different variety. Oh well. We have to make the best of what we can while we're here.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

war1025 7y ago

Won't do it justice, but there was a sermon I thought was pretty interesting a couple years ago relating to the passage where Jesus asks Peter if he loves him. Basically Jesus asks Peter three times whether Peter loves him. And three times Peter says "You know I love you". Seems like a pretty uneventful passage in English. Our pastor elaborated a bit and explained that in the original (greek / aramaic, don't remember which), there are several kinds of love. What Jesus is saying is basically "Do you love me perfectly, the way only God can?" What Peter is replying is basically "I love you the way that man can, imperfectly." This happens twice. The third time Jesus asks "Do you love me imperfectly, the way that a man can?" And Peter gives the same refrain. Put's a different spin on it since in the first it's just a repetitive exchange, but in the second form it's an instance of God coming down to man's level. Thought that seemed really interesting.

DonaldFisk 7y ago
The New Testament was written in Greek, though the original dialogue would have been in Aramaic. In the Greek version, Jesus uses the verb ἀγαπάω (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ἀγαπάω#Ancient_Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ἀγαπάω#Ancient_Greek) and Peter replies with the verb φιλέω (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/φιλέω#Ancient_Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/φιλέω#Ancient_Greek).