5 ms·

I think it's landed in the same sense as "landed a deal": got, or achieved, in this case achieving shooting them down. For me, my first read of the sentence wo

I think it's landed in the same sense as "landed a deal": got, or achieved, in this case achieving shooting them down. For me, my first read of the sentence would definitely be that it means shot down.

otterpop 7y ago
so this is why the human score is 89.8 :)
hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
Ahh, just found an example where that's taken from https://glosbe.com/en/en/land https://glosbe.com/en/en/land. If you find on that page you'll see the exact sentence "the enemy landed several of our aircraft" (without the s after aircraft) which it says means "shoot down". I have still never heard landed used in that way, and again in other dictionaries I searched I couldn't find that definition either. Thus, this is a case where the "AI" may get it "right", and me, the human would get it "wrong", but that still feels like it's missing a huge point. It feels you could get a number of errors by the human which the AI gets "right", but in fact the human is better able to detect what is rare, uncommon or at least ambiguous.
- rhizome 7y ago
  >If you find on that page you'll see the exact sentence "the enemy landed several of our aircraft" (without the s after aircraft) which it says means "shoot down". They're not shy about illustrating a military application up front!
- mike00632 7y ago
  I've worked in aviation for 8 years and also didn't understand this use of "landed". I've heard "grounded" used like this: "The maintenance issues gounded the jet," but not "landed".
  - longblack 7y ago
    I think the sentence is referring to aircraft that have been forced to land by the enemy, in contrast to "grounded" aircraft that had not taken flight. I haven't worked in aviation so my understanding of terminology could be wrong, but either way it is definitely an unusual example.
    - mike00632 7y ago
      Right, I think you understand the word as I do: 'verb' + ed. "The enemy landed the jet" as in they forced the jet to land either directly or indirectly. This would mean that the two sentences use "landed" the same way. But my understanding is SuperGLUE's offical answer is that these use "landed" differently with the rational that "landed" is idiomatic and just means to procure or bring about (e.g. "I landed the job") and it happens to be used with planes.
    - gpm 7y ago
      "The enemy landed 4 of our aircraft" without context wouldn't generally mean "forced to land" imo (as a native speaker). It would mean that they either destroyed them or managed to acquire them. For example I might say that "they landed 4 aircraft with their daring" if they forced us to abandon an air craft carrier (e.g. by sinking it) and then managed to steal 4 of the planes (before it sunk). Or I might say "they landed 4 aircraft with that bomb" if they dropped a bomb on an airfield and it destroyed 4 aircraft.
    - michaelt 7y ago
      A fishing boat can land a big catch - and a sales executive might have landed a big deal, perhaps after reeling them in or having them on the hook. So this would be particularly apt wording if the enemy had thrown a net over the plane as it sank in the ocean. But I prefer to think the enemy gifted british country estates to the planes.
  - adrianmonk 7y ago
    Working in aviation probably puts you in a mindset that makes it harder to parse. It's not being used in a way that is related to flight or aircraft. It's like if people were discussing where to have a conference, and one of them proposed a hotel. Then another person suggested a resort. Then a third person floated a cruise ship. Cruise ships do float, but it has nothing to do with anything. They are floating the idea of the ship as a venue.
- fouc 7y ago
  I agree, AI should realistically be able to detect the rare/uncommon/ambiguous usage as well, and rated for that. I suppose in some case it could score better than humans on SuperGLUE benchmark.. but eventually it will have to come back down to near human score as it gets more accurate.
  - jobigoud 7y ago
    Why? In many of those benchmarks the average human score is not 100, but the AI progression doesn't really have a ceiling or a slow down at the human number. It should go through it and settle somewhere above. Plus we create these tests with our own limitations. There may be a world of more complexity or subtlelty that we all fail to grasp but the AI will. I think humans are already behind at the face recognition task for example.
- Enginerrrd 7y ago
  I think if we really looked at it, it likely comes from fishing where "to land" a fish means to succeed in quite literally getting it onto land from the water. But we use it as "to successfully get" (something typically uncertain) in many other contexts.
  - chrisweekly 7y ago
    though you can "land" a fish while still on your boat. disclaimer: beyond pedantic, but 100% appropriate given the topic is NLP and idioms
    - Enginerrrd 7y ago
      Sure, although what is a boat but an island to a fish?
theaeolist 7y ago
> I think it's landed in the same sense as "landed a deal": got, or achieved, in this case achieving shooting them down. My buddy is a pilot and they always say "I landed the takeoff pretty good. PRETTY GOOD!"

otterpop 7y ago

so this is why the human score is 89.8 :)

hn_throwaway_99 7y ago

Ahh, just found an example where that's taken from https://glosbe.com/en/en/land https://glosbe.com/en/en/land. If you find on that page you'll see the exact sentence "the enemy landed several of our aircraft" (without the s after aircraft) which it says means "shoot down". I have still never heard landed used in that way, and again in other dictionaries I searched I couldn't find that definition either. Thus, this is a case where the "AI" may get it "right", and me, the human would get it "wrong", but that still feels like it's missing a huge point. It feels you could get a number of errors by the human which the AI gets "right", but in fact the human is better able to detect what is rare, uncommon or at least ambiguous.

rhizome 7y ago
>If you find on that page you'll see the exact sentence "the enemy landed several of our aircraft" (without the s after aircraft) which it says means "shoot down". They're not shy about illustrating a military application up front!
mike00632 7y ago
I've worked in aviation for 8 years and also didn't understand this use of "landed". I've heard "grounded" used like this: "The maintenance issues gounded the jet," but not "landed".
- longblack 7y ago
  I think the sentence is referring to aircraft that have been forced to land by the enemy, in contrast to "grounded" aircraft that had not taken flight. I haven't worked in aviation so my understanding of terminology could be wrong, but either way it is definitely an unusual example.
  - mike00632 7y ago
    Right, I think you understand the word as I do: 'verb' + ed. "The enemy landed the jet" as in they forced the jet to land either directly or indirectly. This would mean that the two sentences use "landed" the same way. But my understanding is SuperGLUE's offical answer is that these use "landed" differently with the rational that "landed" is idiomatic and just means to procure or bring about (e.g. "I landed the job") and it happens to be used with planes.
  - gpm 7y ago
    "The enemy landed 4 of our aircraft" without context wouldn't generally mean "forced to land" imo (as a native speaker). It would mean that they either destroyed them or managed to acquire them. For example I might say that "they landed 4 aircraft with their daring" if they forced us to abandon an air craft carrier (e.g. by sinking it) and then managed to steal 4 of the planes (before it sunk). Or I might say "they landed 4 aircraft with that bomb" if they dropped a bomb on an airfield and it destroyed 4 aircraft.
  - michaelt 7y ago
    A fishing boat can land a big catch - and a sales executive might have landed a big deal, perhaps after reeling them in or having them on the hook. So this would be particularly apt wording if the enemy had thrown a net over the plane as it sank in the ocean. But I prefer to think the enemy gifted british country estates to the planes.
- adrianmonk 7y ago
  Working in aviation probably puts you in a mindset that makes it harder to parse. It's not being used in a way that is related to flight or aircraft. It's like if people were discussing where to have a conference, and one of them proposed a hotel. Then another person suggested a resort. Then a third person floated a cruise ship. Cruise ships do float, but it has nothing to do with anything. They are floating the idea of the ship as a venue.
fouc 7y ago
I agree, AI should realistically be able to detect the rare/uncommon/ambiguous usage as well, and rated for that. I suppose in some case it could score better than humans on SuperGLUE benchmark.. but eventually it will have to come back down to near human score as it gets more accurate.
- jobigoud 7y ago
  Why? In many of those benchmarks the average human score is not 100, but the AI progression doesn't really have a ceiling or a slow down at the human number. It should go through it and settle somewhere above. Plus we create these tests with our own limitations. There may be a world of more complexity or subtlelty that we all fail to grasp but the AI will. I think humans are already behind at the face recognition task for example.
Enginerrrd 7y ago
I think if we really looked at it, it likely comes from fishing where "to land" a fish means to succeed in quite literally getting it onto land from the water. But we use it as "to successfully get" (something typically uncertain) in many other contexts.
- chrisweekly 7y ago
  though you can "land" a fish while still on your boat. disclaimer: beyond pedantic, but 100% appropriate given the topic is NLP and idioms
  - Enginerrrd 7y ago
    Sure, although what is a boat but an island to a fish?

theaeolist 7y ago

> I think it's landed in the same sense as "landed a deal": got, or achieved, in this case achieving shooting them down. My buddy is a pilot and they always say "I landed the takeoff pretty good. PRETTY GOOD!"