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> The real problem is that this is a never-ending cycle. That's where I disagree. I think the web was fundamentally unsuited to the "application" use-case and

by _bxg1 7y ago

> The real problem is that this is a never-ending cycle. That's where I disagree. I think the web was fundamentally unsuited to the "application" use-case and has been making its way in that direction for 5-10 years now. I think once we reach that destination, the churn will drop off dramatically. The platform will become enough, for the most part, and we may shrug off the need for comprehensive "frameworks" altogether in favor of simple libraries, like most other language ecosystems.

XCSme 7y ago
I do feel that the application use-case has already been reached, yet I do not think this cycle speed is going to change. I do hope that at some point this will stop as this cycle is wasting way too many human brain resources which could be otherwise used on more interesting problems.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  > I do feel that the application use-case has already been reached It clearly hasn't though, as demonstrated by this very OP ;) Everything people are complaining about here, in addition to the problem being addressed by Concurrency Mode, are things that writers of native apps don't have to fight with: - Lack of concurrency - Complex, layered build systems - Several layers of syntax transformation as an industry baseline - Lack of a consistent story for modules - Overall jank-proneness - Platform bloat like that in Electron But then why re-solve all these problems if you can just build a native app? Because native platforms over the decades have repeatedly tried and failed to a) be truly cross-platform and b) have truly flexible, well-documented layout systems. The web gives us those. We just have to go back in and add the things it lacks. When all of these problems have been solved and a new framework is still coming out every week, then we can talk about frivolous effort being expended. Until then these are real, worthwhile problems being worked on.
  - bryanrasmussen 7y ago
    I agree that native platforms have failed to give us the things that the web platform gives us, and that we want those things in our solutions, but it does not mean that we will ever actually be able to add in the things that the web lacks - I suppose that we will be able to but I must also entertain the possibility that there is some mutually contradictory thing in the two paradigms that we are not seeing.

by _bxg1 7y ago

XCSme 7y ago

I do feel that the application use-case has already been reached, yet I do not think this cycle speed is going to change. I do hope that at some point this will stop as this cycle is wasting way too many human brain resources which could be otherwise used on more interesting problems.

_bxg1 7y ago
> I do feel that the application use-case has already been reached It clearly hasn't though, as demonstrated by this very OP ;) Everything people are complaining about here, in addition to the problem being addressed by Concurrency Mode, are things that writers of native apps don't have to fight with: - Lack of concurrency - Complex, layered build systems - Several layers of syntax transformation as an industry baseline - Lack of a consistent story for modules - Overall jank-proneness - Platform bloat like that in Electron But then why re-solve all these problems if you can just build a native app? Because native platforms over the decades have repeatedly tried and failed to a) be truly cross-platform and b) have truly flexible, well-documented layout systems. The web gives us those. We just have to go back in and add the things it lacks. When all of these problems have been solved and a new framework is still coming out every week, then we can talk about frivolous effort being expended. Until then these are real, worthwhile problems being worked on.
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  I agree that native platforms have failed to give us the things that the web platform gives us, and that we want those things in our solutions, but it does not mean that we will ever actually be able to add in the things that the web lacks - I suppose that we will be able to but I must also entertain the possibility that there is some mutually contradictory thing in the two paradigms that we are not seeing.