4 ms·

Decriminalized yes, the question of legalization is more complicated. When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and

by cc-d 7y ago

Decriminalized yes, the question of legalization is more complicated. When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and suffering. Many of the same arguments made for cannabis legalization also apply to opium. It's difficult to unintentionally overdose on, there are no serious long term health detriments aside from dependency and constipation (and testosterone decrease). The poppy has been cultivated by humans for as long as wheat has, it is only recently recently it became so demonized. And most importantly, it would largely eliminate the demand for black market heroin/fentanyl. Opium is a combination of 3 alkaloids, morphine, codeine, thebaine. Heroin is just acetylated morphine which allows for more total morphine to cross the BBB, it's still morphine which produces most of the effect users desire. And most importantly, it allows opioid users a strong, easy to access, cheap, legal alternative to being sick. Even though there would still be some demand, black market suppliers could not compete price wise, so the black market would be eliminated very quickly. The DRAMATIC price reduction will also make the financial effects of opioid dependency much less devastating.

JamesBarney 7y ago
If it's not legalized who are the black market suppliers not able to compete against on price?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
darawk 7y ago
> When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and suffering. Many of the same arguments made for cannabis legalization also apply to opium. It's difficult to unintentionally overdose on, While I agree with the general thrust of your argument, this point is incorrect. It's not difficult to unintentionally overdose on Opium. Not at all.
- anon1m0us 7y ago
  That comment struck me too. Perhaps there is a difference between Opium overdose and Opioid overdose? When I think consuming opium, I conjure images of old chinese artwork where they are smoking it in a hookah type instrument. The Opioid overdoses are mostly Fentanyl and other extracts from opium. I'm not an expert, but if I am understanding correctly, it seems easier access to Opium which may be, according to the GP, hard to OD on, would reduce the Opioid OD epidemic.
  - darawk 7y ago
    That may be what the OP was thinking, but it's not the case. You can very much OD on regular Opium. It is even easier to OD on its extracts (specifically morphine), and even easier still to OD on its synthetic analogues (fentanyl). However, you can absolutely OD and die on pure opium.
    - idDriven 7y ago
      The dude said 'unintentionally' overdose on opium. This article covering Laudanum (opium + alcohol tincture) deaths in the 1800s sounds like the overdoses were largely intentional or one where an adult dose was given to a child. https://www.apnews.com/910654effffe42f985ebe01f299407f5 https://www.apnews.com/910654effffe42f985ebe01f299407f5 As long as the strength is known most addicts will measure the dose or titrate up safely.
      - darawk 7y ago
        I'm aware, I repeated his 'unintentional'. Unintentional overdose deaths on Opium are certainly less common than fentanyl. But they are nowhere near as difficult to achieve as Marijuana, which is basically impossible.
    - cc-d 7y ago
      >That may be what the OP was thinking, but it's not the case. You can very much OD on regular Opium Read above. Orally, it's a strong emetic. Unless a user takes vastly more than a normal dose for their body weight, they will vomit and be fine. Opium, when smoked, is even safer as users pass out well before overdose. It is easier to overdose on acetaminophen, and many other things you can pick up over the counter at your local pharmacy. > It is even easier to OD on its extracts (specifically morphine) Yes, but this is why I am using the word opium, and not morphine. > its synthetic analogues (fentanyl). Fentanyl is not an analog of anything found in opium, it's an entirely different molecule with no relationship whatsoever to the traditional opiates.
pstuart 7y ago
No. Sorry. Legalize them all. We are tricked into discussing drug prohibition as if it is intended to protect the public. It never was and never will be. The fact that we sell alcohol and tobacco ends any discussion over "safe" drug use. Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. Anything else is misguided misery at best.

by cc-d 7y ago

JamesBarney 7y ago

If it's not legalized who are the black market suppliers not able to compete against on price?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

darawk 7y ago

> When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and suffering. Many of the same arguments made for cannabis legalization also apply to opium. It's difficult to unintentionally overdose on, While I agree with the general thrust of your argument, this point is incorrect. It's not difficult to unintentionally overdose on Opium. Not at all.

anon1m0us 7y ago
That comment struck me too. Perhaps there is a difference between Opium overdose and Opioid overdose? When I think consuming opium, I conjure images of old chinese artwork where they are smoking it in a hookah type instrument. The Opioid overdoses are mostly Fentanyl and other extracts from opium. I'm not an expert, but if I am understanding correctly, it seems easier access to Opium which may be, according to the GP, hard to OD on, would reduce the Opioid OD epidemic.
- darawk 7y ago
  That may be what the OP was thinking, but it's not the case. You can very much OD on regular Opium. It is even easier to OD on its extracts (specifically morphine), and even easier still to OD on its synthetic analogues (fentanyl). However, you can absolutely OD and die on pure opium.
  - idDriven 7y ago
    The dude said 'unintentionally' overdose on opium. This article covering Laudanum (opium + alcohol tincture) deaths in the 1800s sounds like the overdoses were largely intentional or one where an adult dose was given to a child. https://www.apnews.com/910654effffe42f985ebe01f299407f5 https://www.apnews.com/910654effffe42f985ebe01f299407f5 As long as the strength is known most addicts will measure the dose or titrate up safely.
    - darawk 7y ago
      I'm aware, I repeated his 'unintentional'. Unintentional overdose deaths on Opium are certainly less common than fentanyl. But they are nowhere near as difficult to achieve as Marijuana, which is basically impossible.
  - cc-d 7y ago
    >That may be what the OP was thinking, but it's not the case. You can very much OD on regular Opium Read above. Orally, it's a strong emetic. Unless a user takes vastly more than a normal dose for their body weight, they will vomit and be fine. Opium, when smoked, is even safer as users pass out well before overdose. It is easier to overdose on acetaminophen, and many other things you can pick up over the counter at your local pharmacy. > It is even easier to OD on its extracts (specifically morphine) Yes, but this is why I am using the word opium, and not morphine. > its synthetic analogues (fentanyl). Fentanyl is not an analog of anything found in opium, it's an entirely different molecule with no relationship whatsoever to the traditional opiates.

pstuart 7y ago

No. Sorry. Legalize them all. We are tricked into discussing drug prohibition as if it is intended to protect the public. It never was and never will be. The fact that we sell alcohol and tobacco ends any discussion over "safe" drug use. Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. Anything else is misguided misery at best.