5 ms·

First off, nobody swindled anyone of anything. Ahh, I shouldn't even be responding to you.

cperciva 16y ago
You phoned 20 companies and said that you wanted to buy them. You promised them ten million dollars which you didn't have. You promised them ten million dollars worth of stock which you knew was worthless (while telling them that it would be worth a hundred million dollars). You lied, many times over. Maybe to you that's just "being a good salesman"; but to me, that's simply unacceptable.
- acqq 16y ago
  > phoned 20 companies and said that you wanted to buy them Not a lie. He actually did buy the company which responded. For more than it received from the former bidder. > You promised them ten million dollars which you didn't have. Most of the purchases are made without the hard cash in the bank.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    Not a lie. He actually did buy the company which responded. True, but he didn't want to buy 20 companies. Do you think it's reasonable for a man to ask 20 women to marry him, based on the premise of "19 of them will probably say no"? For more than it received from the former bidder. Only if you accept his completely fictitious stock valuation. Most of the purchases are made without the hard cash in the bank. Sure, but I'd hope there's usually a fairly clear path to obtaining the cash -- clearer than turning around and selling (part of) the company you just bought.
    - iwwr 16y ago
      Promises based on stock valuations are hollow, unless backed by an option to sell at a fixed price.
    - acqq 16y ago
      >> For more than it received from the former bidder. > Only if you accept his completely fictitious stock valuation It's about what those who sell are willing to accept. They accepted, they did consider that a better offer. > Do you think it's reasonable for a man to ask 20 women to marry him That's obviously a wrong analogy for his search for a company ready to be sold.
    - gilgad13 16y ago
      > True, but he didn't want to buy 20 companies. Do you think it's reasonable for a man to ask 20 women to marry him, based on the premise of "19 of them will probably say no"? Oh, come on. Do you think its reasonable to try to buy a car at 20 different dealers, even if you only want one of them?
      - cperciva 16y ago
        If I wanted to buy a car, I might go to 20 different dealers and say "I want to buy a car and I'm considering car X", but I wouldn't phone up 20 dealers and say "I want to buy car X" for 20 different values of X.
        neworbit 16y ago
        ...but the point of a rollup is that you do want to buy five or seven cars out of those twenty.
    - PakG1 16y ago
      >> Sure, but I'd hope there's usually a fairly clear path to obtaining the cash -- clearer than turning around and selling (part of) the company you just bought. Mezzanine financing? Interest rates suck for that stuff though. In the world of M&As, I don't think stuff like this is uncommon, given what I hear from my finance friends.
- geekinthecorner 16y ago
  Most stock options in non-public companies are worthless.
- brc 16y ago
  >promised them ten million dollars which you didn't have. When I bought my house I promised the seller an amount of money which I didn't have at the time. There is no difference. Not having the money at the time of agreeing a sale is routine. Not having the money at the time of the transaction would be unacceptable.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    In Canada it's commonplace for people to go to a bank and get pre-approved for a mortgage before they go house-hunting, so that they know how much they can afford to spend. Are things done differently in the US?
davidw 16y ago
May I point out that the headline does say "screwed".
- nandemo 16y ago
  Well, in hindsight Arafat got screwed but clearly it wasn't the author's intent to do so; he wanted to get rich by taking funding and later selling the company, not by stealing money from the investors.

You phoned 20 companies and said that you wanted to buy them. You promised them ten million dollars which you didn't have. You promised them ten million dollars worth of stock which you knew was worthless (while telling them that it would be worth a hundred million dollars). You lied, many times over. Maybe to you that's just "being a good salesman"; but to me, that's simply unacceptable.

acqq 16y ago
> phoned 20 companies and said that you wanted to buy them Not a lie. He actually did buy the company which responded. For more than it received from the former bidder. > You promised them ten million dollars which you didn't have. Most of the purchases are made without the hard cash in the bank.
- cperciva 16y ago
  Not a lie. He actually did buy the company which responded. True, but he didn't want to buy 20 companies. Do you think it's reasonable for a man to ask 20 women to marry him, based on the premise of "19 of them will probably say no"? For more than it received from the former bidder. Only if you accept his completely fictitious stock valuation. Most of the purchases are made without the hard cash in the bank. Sure, but I'd hope there's usually a fairly clear path to obtaining the cash -- clearer than turning around and selling (part of) the company you just bought.
  - iwwr 16y ago
    Promises based on stock valuations are hollow, unless backed by an option to sell at a fixed price.
  - acqq 16y ago
    >> For more than it received from the former bidder. > Only if you accept his completely fictitious stock valuation It's about what those who sell are willing to accept. They accepted, they did consider that a better offer. > Do you think it's reasonable for a man to ask 20 women to marry him That's obviously a wrong analogy for his search for a company ready to be sold.
  - gilgad13 16y ago
    > True, but he didn't want to buy 20 companies. Do you think it's reasonable for a man to ask 20 women to marry him, based on the premise of "19 of them will probably say no"? Oh, come on. Do you think its reasonable to try to buy a car at 20 different dealers, even if you only want one of them?
    - cperciva 16y ago
      If I wanted to buy a car, I might go to 20 different dealers and say "I want to buy a car and I'm considering car X", but I wouldn't phone up 20 dealers and say "I want to buy car X" for 20 different values of X.
      - neworbit 16y ago
        ...but the point of a rollup is that you do want to buy five or seven cars out of those twenty.
  - PakG1 16y ago
    >> Sure, but I'd hope there's usually a fairly clear path to obtaining the cash -- clearer than turning around and selling (part of) the company you just bought. Mezzanine financing? Interest rates suck for that stuff though. In the world of M&As, I don't think stuff like this is uncommon, given what I hear from my finance friends.
geekinthecorner 16y ago
Most stock options in non-public companies are worthless.
brc 16y ago
>promised them ten million dollars which you didn't have. When I bought my house I promised the seller an amount of money which I didn't have at the time. There is no difference. Not having the money at the time of agreeing a sale is routine. Not having the money at the time of the transaction would be unacceptable.
- cperciva 16y ago
  In Canada it's commonplace for people to go to a bank and get pre-approved for a mortgage before they go house-hunting, so that they know how much they can afford to spend. Are things done differently in the US?

davidw 16y ago

May I point out that the headline does say "screwed".

nandemo 16y ago
Well, in hindsight Arafat got screwed but clearly it wasn't the author's intent to do so; he wanted to get rich by taking funding and later selling the company, not by stealing money from the investors.