7 ms·

I've often been surprised by what has come out in a coding test that hasn't emerged in a conversation. People who seemed dull and uninspired in conversation end

I've often been surprised by what has come out in a coding test that hasn't emerged in a conversation. People who seemed dull and uninspired in conversation ended up being brilliant and vice versa. There's no substitute I think.

malvosenior 7y ago
The trick is to get good at having those conversations so you can get to the bottom of someone's skills even if they're not outgoing, good at speaking... It's totally doable but it's on the manager to develop those skills. There are a lot of excellent developers who do not code well in an interview context. Nerves, artificial restraints... coding is something that happens once you're in the flow. That's a state few can achieve in an interview.
- crdoconnor 7y ago
  It's rather like saying that you can interview a musician without asking them to play. Yes, nerves play a part. That's why it's good to start easy and ramp up difficulty gradually, giving the interviewee a few easy wins to build up their confidence before getting them in to the harder stuff. Frankly I find the most unnerving interviews (coding and questions) to be the ones where you have to second guess what the interviewer wants to hear. Where the question/task is difficult, but the desired outcome straightforward it's much less stressful.
  - ScottFree 7y ago
    It's closer to saying you can hire a songwriter without asking them to write a song in front of you. A musician gets paid to perform in front of people. Asking them to do that in the interview is exactly the skill they're looking for.
    - cableshaft 7y ago
      Spot on! Or take the Funnyman scene from Boondock Saints where a criminal boss tells a guy, "They tell me you're a Funny Guy. Tell me a funny joke." "Now? A joke? Uh... um, uh... A joke. Yeah, alright. Um... <awkwardly starts an offensive joke>... I'm not funny today. I-I know. I'm havin' a hard day. I-I-I- This joke sucks. It's-it's-it's a stupid joke." That's kind of like how I code when sitting down for an interview, whereas I have no problem otherwise. My coding looks like an awkwardly told joke (oftentimes). If all I had to do was pick some code I had memorized and practiced and "perform it", i.e. type it out, then yeah, sure, no problem. But I get asked to come up with the answer to something on the spot, something I usually take a little time to settle into, maybe do some Googling, etc, and always seems to be something I missed when spending several days to a week refreshing my memory on what I think I'm going to be asked ahead of the interview.
    - bradleyjg 7y ago
      You’d probably ask a songwriter to share some prior songs, not ask “tell me about a time you had to work with a difficult co-worker” and trust your gut to tell you how that translates to song writing ability.
      - ScottFree 7y ago
        I don't know how hiring a songwriter actually works in the music business, but I would imagine it has the same issue that programming has. It's very difficult to objectively assess the quality of work in a vacuum. Discussing the process and mindset behind a work is often more helpful than only looking at the end product itself.

malvosenior 7y ago

The trick is to get good at having those conversations so you can get to the bottom of someone's skills even if they're not outgoing, good at speaking... It's totally doable but it's on the manager to develop those skills. There are a lot of excellent developers who do not code well in an interview context. Nerves, artificial restraints... coding is something that happens once you're in the flow. That's a state few can achieve in an interview.

crdoconnor 7y ago
It's rather like saying that you can interview a musician without asking them to play. Yes, nerves play a part. That's why it's good to start easy and ramp up difficulty gradually, giving the interviewee a few easy wins to build up their confidence before getting them in to the harder stuff. Frankly I find the most unnerving interviews (coding and questions) to be the ones where you have to second guess what the interviewer wants to hear. Where the question/task is difficult, but the desired outcome straightforward it's much less stressful.
- ScottFree 7y ago
  It's closer to saying you can hire a songwriter without asking them to write a song in front of you. A musician gets paid to perform in front of people. Asking them to do that in the interview is exactly the skill they're looking for.
  - cableshaft 7y ago
    Spot on! Or take the Funnyman scene from Boondock Saints where a criminal boss tells a guy, "They tell me you're a Funny Guy. Tell me a funny joke." "Now? A joke? Uh... um, uh... A joke. Yeah, alright. Um... <awkwardly starts an offensive joke>... I'm not funny today. I-I know. I'm havin' a hard day. I-I-I- This joke sucks. It's-it's-it's a stupid joke." That's kind of like how I code when sitting down for an interview, whereas I have no problem otherwise. My coding looks like an awkwardly told joke (oftentimes). If all I had to do was pick some code I had memorized and practiced and "perform it", i.e. type it out, then yeah, sure, no problem. But I get asked to come up with the answer to something on the spot, something I usually take a little time to settle into, maybe do some Googling, etc, and always seems to be something I missed when spending several days to a week refreshing my memory on what I think I'm going to be asked ahead of the interview.
  - bradleyjg 7y ago
    You’d probably ask a songwriter to share some prior songs, not ask “tell me about a time you had to work with a difficult co-worker” and trust your gut to tell you how that translates to song writing ability.
    - ScottFree 7y ago
      I don't know how hiring a songwriter actually works in the music business, but I would imagine it has the same issue that programming has. It's very difficult to objectively assess the quality of work in a vacuum. Discussing the process and mindset behind a work is often more helpful than only looking at the end product itself.