6 ms·

All drugs should be legalized in US. You should be able to buy opioids/heroin/cannabis at the local pharmacy with no prescription or questions asked. This war

All drugs should be legalized in US. You should be able to buy opioids/heroin/cannabis at the local pharmacy with no prescription or questions asked. This war on drugs only kills people and makes the Purdue family rich.

maverick2007 7y ago
Is there anywhere in the world where all drugs are legalized? I know Portugal (and maybe others) have decriminalized drugs and results are pretty good but going from decriminalization to legalization feels like a big step.
- authoritarian 7y ago
  Drug possession has been decriminalized in Uruguay since the mid 1970s. As you mention, Portugal also decriminalized all drugs in 2001. Switzerland provides safe injection rooms and needle exchanges for harm reduction
  - jackpeterfletch 7y ago
    Their point is that thats not 'legalization' on the sell side though. So if thats it we have no real data on how that would work.
avocado4 7y ago
What happens if you buy heroin, overdose, and pass out on the street with permanent brain damage?
- not2personal 7y ago
  What happens now?
- authoritarian 7y ago
  The same thing that happens now, except medics could know you're overdosing on pure diacetylmorphine (or whatever is sold), rather than heroin mixed with fentanyl mixed with baby formula powder mixed with your dealers skin sells mixed with whatever other garbage street drugs get cut with. Not to mention the money saved from being wasted on the war on drugs and gained from the sale of drugs could go towards mental health and other medical services to actual address the root of the issue rather than wasting even more money by throwing addicts in prison
rectangletangle 7y ago
What's your stance on antibiotics? Or did you only mean "recreational" drugs? The reason why I bring this up is that antimicrobial resistance is an externality of widespread antibiotic usage. Unfettered access to all drugs would probably accelerate antimicrobial resistance, because people tend to overuse/abuse antibiotics when they have the freedom to. (Not trying to be mean/inflammatory/pedantic, I'm genuinely curious how HN would reconcile these stances.)
- fiftyfifty 7y ago
  Vast quantities of antibiotics are used by agriculture in the US, with little regulation or control. The stuff is in our water and food supply, whatever additional increases allowing people to purchase/use antibiotics without a prescription seem pretty small by comparison.
  - rectangletangle 7y ago
    You're certainly correct. But in this case it might bolster human specific pathogens. I know there is some overlap between human an animal pathogens, but unfettered access to antibiotics might accelerate the problem for humans specifically (which is probably worse than the current prescription only policy in the US).
    - hawkice 7y ago
      My understanding is that resistance to human pathogens is driven by waste water contamination. Human excrement combined with industrial quantities of antibiotics. I'm sure there is a smaller scale problem of human use, but that petri dish is the one that's causing the problems, is my understanding.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I don't think most drug legalization types intend to advocate for unrestricted access to antibiotics, but it's certainly worth discussing. antibiotics are less effective for everyone the more they are used, so you can conceptualize the effectiveness of antibiotics as a common resource that can be spent down. if I abuse antibiotics, I am directly harming you. there are arguments that drug abuse also harms others, but I find them somewhat less compelling. usually they follow the pattern of "I feel compelled to help you in X situation, so you are harming me by putting yourself in X situation". not an entirely illegitimate argument, but much more debatable imo. there's also the common "we have to protect people from their own poor choices" which I consider incompatible with free society.
cc-d 7y ago
Decriminalized yes, the question of legalization is more complicated. When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and suffering. Many of the same arguments made for cannabis legalization also apply to opium. It's difficult to unintentionally overdose on, there are no serious long term health detriments aside from dependency and constipation (and testosterone decrease). The poppy has been cultivated by humans for as long as wheat has, it is only recently recently it became so demonized. And most importantly, it would largely eliminate the demand for black market heroin/fentanyl. Opium is a combination of 3 alkaloids, morphine, codeine, thebaine. Heroin is just acetylated morphine which allows for more total morphine to cross the BBB, it's still morphine which produces most of the effect users desire. And most importantly, it allows opioid users a strong, easy to access, cheap, legal alternative to being sick. Even though there would still be some demand, black market suppliers could not compete price wise, so the black market would be eliminated very quickly. The DRAMATIC price reduction will also make the financial effects of opioid dependency much less devastating.
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  If it's not legalized who are the black market suppliers not able to compete against on price?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- darawk 7y ago
  > When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and suffering. Many of the same arguments made for cannabis legalization also apply to opium. It's difficult to unintentionally overdose on, While I agree with the general thrust of your argument, this point is incorrect. It's not difficult to unintentionally overdose on Opium. Not at all.
  - anon1m0us 7y ago
    That comment struck me too. Perhaps there is a difference between Opium overdose and Opioid overdose? When I think consuming opium, I conjure images of old chinese artwork where they are smoking it in a hookah type instrument. The Opioid overdoses are mostly Fentanyl and other extracts from opium. I'm not an expert, but if I am understanding correctly, it seems easier access to Opium which may be, according to the GP, hard to OD on, would reduce the Opioid OD epidemic.
tengbretson 7y ago
What if you're wrong though? What if full legalization leads to our country becoming a drug addled hellscape? Do we return to the status quo?
jackpeterfletch 7y ago
My reservation with complete legalization. Is that I think there is a strong conflict of interest, in any corporation being allow to sell, advertise, and market any highly addictive substance. You could argue that there will be rules and restrictions, but lets not forget that the current opiod crisis, was caused directly by those corporations corrupting the supervisory body (Doctors) in place to stop it happening. The supervision needs fixing (which I trust it can as it seems to be a uniquely US problem), but if you lifted it all together, I believe the floodgates would be open for corporate exploitation.
- gerbilly 7y ago
  > [...] I think there is a strong conflict of interest, in any corporation being allow to sell, advertise, and market any highly addictive substance. Just ban advertising of drugs then. In Canada, cigarette ads are banned for example.
  - jackpeterfletch 7y ago
    Same in the UK. But, its taken 100 years of legislation to get there, in the meantime, cigarette companies have funded research that claims their product isnt dangerous, and targeted children, etc etc. Opiods are a whole different game. Combine that with teams of data scientists trying to boost addictions. I could even see blends being developed that meant you couldent easily switch to a competitors drugs.
- circlefavshape 7y ago
  Last winter in San Francisco I saw a billboard with the ad "Hello marijuana, goodbye anxiety"

maverick2007 7y ago

Is there anywhere in the world where all drugs are legalized? I know Portugal (and maybe others) have decriminalized drugs and results are pretty good but going from decriminalization to legalization feels like a big step.

authoritarian 7y ago
Drug possession has been decriminalized in Uruguay since the mid 1970s. As you mention, Portugal also decriminalized all drugs in 2001. Switzerland provides safe injection rooms and needle exchanges for harm reduction
- jackpeterfletch 7y ago
  Their point is that thats not 'legalization' on the sell side though. So if thats it we have no real data on how that would work.

avocado4 7y ago

What happens if you buy heroin, overdose, and pass out on the street with permanent brain damage?

not2personal 7y ago
What happens now?
authoritarian 7y ago
The same thing that happens now, except medics could know you're overdosing on pure diacetylmorphine (or whatever is sold), rather than heroin mixed with fentanyl mixed with baby formula powder mixed with your dealers skin sells mixed with whatever other garbage street drugs get cut with. Not to mention the money saved from being wasted on the war on drugs and gained from the sale of drugs could go towards mental health and other medical services to actual address the root of the issue rather than wasting even more money by throwing addicts in prison

rectangletangle 7y ago

What's your stance on antibiotics? Or did you only mean "recreational" drugs? The reason why I bring this up is that antimicrobial resistance is an externality of widespread antibiotic usage. Unfettered access to all drugs would probably accelerate antimicrobial resistance, because people tend to overuse/abuse antibiotics when they have the freedom to. (Not trying to be mean/inflammatory/pedantic, I'm genuinely curious how HN would reconcile these stances.)

fiftyfifty 7y ago
Vast quantities of antibiotics are used by agriculture in the US, with little regulation or control. The stuff is in our water and food supply, whatever additional increases allowing people to purchase/use antibiotics without a prescription seem pretty small by comparison.
- rectangletangle 7y ago
  You're certainly correct. But in this case it might bolster human specific pathogens. I know there is some overlap between human an animal pathogens, but unfettered access to antibiotics might accelerate the problem for humans specifically (which is probably worse than the current prescription only policy in the US).
  - hawkice 7y ago
    My understanding is that resistance to human pathogens is driven by waste water contamination. Human excrement combined with industrial quantities of antibiotics. I'm sure there is a smaller scale problem of human use, but that petri dish is the one that's causing the problems, is my understanding.
leetcrew 7y ago
I don't think most drug legalization types intend to advocate for unrestricted access to antibiotics, but it's certainly worth discussing. antibiotics are less effective for everyone the more they are used, so you can conceptualize the effectiveness of antibiotics as a common resource that can be spent down. if I abuse antibiotics, I am directly harming you. there are arguments that drug abuse also harms others, but I find them somewhat less compelling. usually they follow the pattern of "I feel compelled to help you in X situation, so you are harming me by putting yourself in X situation". not an entirely illegitimate argument, but much more debatable imo. there's also the common "we have to protect people from their own poor choices" which I consider incompatible with free society.

cc-d 7y ago

Decriminalized yes, the question of legalization is more complicated. When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and suffering. Many of the same arguments made for cannabis legalization also apply to opium. It's difficult to unintentionally overdose on, there are no serious long term health detriments aside from dependency and constipation (and testosterone decrease). The poppy has been cultivated by humans for as long as wheat has, it is only recently recently it became so demonized. And most importantly, it would largely eliminate the demand for black market heroin/fentanyl. Opium is a combination of 3 alkaloids, morphine, codeine, thebaine. Heroin is just acetylated morphine which allows for more total morphine to cross the BBB, it's still morphine which produces most of the effect users desire. And most importantly, it allows opioid users a strong, easy to access, cheap, legal alternative to being sick. Even though there would still be some demand, black market suppliers could not compete price wise, so the black market would be eliminated very quickly. The DRAMATIC price reduction will also make the financial effects of opioid dependency much less devastating.

JamesBarney 7y ago
If it's not legalized who are the black market suppliers not able to compete against on price?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
darawk 7y ago
> When it comes to opioids, legalized alone opium would alleviate vast swathes of death and suffering. Many of the same arguments made for cannabis legalization also apply to opium. It's difficult to unintentionally overdose on, While I agree with the general thrust of your argument, this point is incorrect. It's not difficult to unintentionally overdose on Opium. Not at all.
- anon1m0us 7y ago
  That comment struck me too. Perhaps there is a difference between Opium overdose and Opioid overdose? When I think consuming opium, I conjure images of old chinese artwork where they are smoking it in a hookah type instrument. The Opioid overdoses are mostly Fentanyl and other extracts from opium. I'm not an expert, but if I am understanding correctly, it seems easier access to Opium which may be, according to the GP, hard to OD on, would reduce the Opioid OD epidemic.

tengbretson 7y ago

What if you're wrong though? What if full legalization leads to our country becoming a drug addled hellscape? Do we return to the status quo?

jackpeterfletch 7y ago

My reservation with complete legalization. Is that I think there is a strong conflict of interest, in any corporation being allow to sell, advertise, and market any highly addictive substance. You could argue that there will be rules and restrictions, but lets not forget that the current opiod crisis, was caused directly by those corporations corrupting the supervisory body (Doctors) in place to stop it happening. The supervision needs fixing (which I trust it can as it seems to be a uniquely US problem), but if you lifted it all together, I believe the floodgates would be open for corporate exploitation.

gerbilly 7y ago
> [...] I think there is a strong conflict of interest, in any corporation being allow to sell, advertise, and market any highly addictive substance. Just ban advertising of drugs then. In Canada, cigarette ads are banned for example.
- jackpeterfletch 7y ago
  Same in the UK. But, its taken 100 years of legislation to get there, in the meantime, cigarette companies have funded research that claims their product isnt dangerous, and targeted children, etc etc. Opiods are a whole different game. Combine that with teams of data scientists trying to boost addictions. I could even see blends being developed that meant you couldent easily switch to a competitors drugs.
circlefavshape 7y ago
Last winter in San Francisco I saw a billboard with the ad "Hello marijuana, goodbye anxiety"