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> A similarly dense hydrogen distribution network doesn't exist, and would have to built from scratch. Or we can add hydrogen to the existing fuels on traditi

> A similarly dense hydrogen distribution network doesn't exist, and would have to built from scratch. Or we can add hydrogen to the existing fuels on traditional petrol stations.

danans 7y ago
Sure, but those stations would still need a invasive and expensive retrofit, adding new underground tanks. You'd also need a new fleet of hydrogen delivery tankers to parallel existing fleet of fuel delivery tankers. And remember that compressed hydrogen's energy density is 5x lower than gasoline [1], so to store the same amount of energy as gasoline, you need 5x the amount of storage volume on site to store the same amount of energy. Fuel cell drivetrains are about double the efficiency of typical gas engines, so that might bring the storage needs down to 2.5x the storage needs for gasoline, but then you also need special equipment to keep the hydrogen contained (it's harder to contain than liquid fuel). You also need 2.5x the number of hydrogen tankers to move that fuel to the stations, or 2.5x the frequency of tanker trips. Compare that to the relatively minimal cost of attaching an EV charging station to an existing building's power supply, and there's not much comparison. At most, you need to upgrade transformers and the local power substations to handle potentially higher demand at peak charging hours, but even that can be done incrementally based on demand profile changes, and mitigated substantially with smart coordinated charging during off-peak hours. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#/media/File:Energy_density.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#/media/File:Ene...
- BerislavLopac 7y ago
  Oh absolutely, the technology will require plenty of updating. But in a typical distribution system the logistics is usually a much more complex and difficult issue. And hydrogen has enough similarities with the existing fuel (unlike electricity) to require barely any changes in the logistics.
  - danans 7y ago
    > And hydrogen has enough similarities with the existing fuel (unlike electricity) Electricity already has a regional and local distribution network. It is an "existing fuel" by definition.

> A similarly dense hydrogen distribution network doesn't exist, and would have to built from scratch. Or we can add hydrogen to the existing fuels on traditional petrol stations.

danans 7y ago

Sure, but those stations would still need a invasive and expensive retrofit, adding new underground tanks. You'd also need a new fleet of hydrogen delivery tankers to parallel existing fleet of fuel delivery tankers. And remember that compressed hydrogen's energy density is 5x lower than gasoline [1], so to store the same amount of energy as gasoline, you need 5x the amount of storage volume on site to store the same amount of energy. Fuel cell drivetrains are about double the efficiency of typical gas engines, so that might bring the storage needs down to 2.5x the storage needs for gasoline, but then you also need special equipment to keep the hydrogen contained (it's harder to contain than liquid fuel). You also need 2.5x the number of hydrogen tankers to move that fuel to the stations, or 2.5x the frequency of tanker trips. Compare that to the relatively minimal cost of attaching an EV charging station to an existing building's power supply, and there's not much comparison. At most, you need to upgrade transformers and the local power substations to handle potentially higher demand at peak charging hours, but even that can be done incrementally based on demand profile changes, and mitigated substantially with smart coordinated charging during off-peak hours. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#/media/File:Energy_density.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#/media/File:Ene...

BerislavLopac 7y ago
Oh absolutely, the technology will require plenty of updating. But in a typical distribution system the logistics is usually a much more complex and difficult issue. And hydrogen has enough similarities with the existing fuel (unlike electricity) to require barely any changes in the logistics.
- danans 7y ago
  > And hydrogen has enough similarities with the existing fuel (unlike electricity) Electricity already has a regional and local distribution network. It is an "existing fuel" by definition.