4 ms·

I don't see why being "trashy" and into drugs+sex has to be relegated to a journey outside the city center. Pearl clutching moralists (not necessarily you) alwa

I don't see why being "trashy" and into drugs+sex has to be relegated to a journey outside the city center. Pearl clutching moralists (not necessarily you) always have a strong voice at this table though. Being interested in these things is no better than raising useless generations of children who, on average, will eventually have MULTIPLE degenerates in the family line. Some jobs are just simply for poor people. I'd rather solve that problem than isolate the effort to sex work. The work involving sex doesn't make it significantly more exploitative than being so poor that you're willing to take short term gains and long term losses driving for Uber or something. At least you can come out profitable in sex work. Let's also think of the service being provided here. Low economic status, ugly men can have their biological urges satisfied. What happens to incels if that goes away? This question is only going to become more important, given the trajectory of hypergamy. As someone that lives in the US, neighborhoods, in my opinion, are ruined by moralists, even if they appear respectful. e.g. I can't legally walk around sipping a beer.

pyrale 7y ago
> The work involving sex doesn't make it significantly more exploitative than [...] driving for Uber How many uber drivers were assaulted or killed in the last month? How many are coerced into driving for uber, and have their gains captured by third party? In which cities are there rings traficking slaves to drive uber cabs? What is the mean age of death for uber drivers? I mean, please... do yourself a favour and research a bit before you make such ignorant claims.
- coldtea 7y ago
  What about those, that, as in TFA, say that they do it by choice, it's a job, and that the government/"concerned citizens" should leave them the duck alone?
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  There has been a recent rash of taxi driver suicides. It is being largely attributed to the rise of services like Uber. There are many articles about the dark side of the Gig Economy and how much workers feel exploited, don't have healthcare, etc. I do gig work and I think it has potential to do good things for the world, but my views are in the minority. Most people see the Gig Economy as an evil force doing nothing but exploiting workers and that exploitation absolutely kills people at times. There is substantial evidence that a large part of the danger involved in sex work comes from the fact that it is criminalized. This fact actively makes it harder for sex workers to operate safely. Uber drivers do not have that problem.
- goobynight 7y ago
  Good question. Are we talking about sex workers globally or in countries where it is legalized and centralized? I'm comparing specifically to places like Hong Kong and Amsterdam that have this work legalized, which is the topic at hand. OP wants the red light district either moved or removed. Prostitution is going to exist in some form. I think we agree there, so do you think moving it outside of the city center is going to improve the situation for these women? I feel like it would do the opposite.
briandear 7y ago
You are suggesting sex work is preferable to Uber? Have you ever been a sex worker? I am as libertarian as it comes, but that false dichotomy is ridiculous. Either get “exploited” by Uber or get a job where men stick their penises in you a dozen times a day. But at least you aren’t being “exploited” by some filthy VC-funded capitalists right?
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  Perhaps you should not assume stuff. Not all prostitutes dislike their work; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346209 Now, an actual fact, I knew a guy, a licensed accountant, about 20 years ago who did the accounts of a working lady (ok, prostitute). He said she was pulling in about £80,000/year. He didn't say whether she liked her job so I can't help you there.
  - hollerith 7y ago
    Did he say how many "sales" she had to make to earn that £80,000?
    - tempguy9999 7y ago
      Ah, hollerith from TheRegister? If so, hail and well met.
      - hollerith 7y ago
        I'm a different hollerith.
    - tempguy9999 7y ago
      I've no more information than what I posted. I can pretty safely assume she wasn't a streetwalker (they don't make much, I do not envy them at all).
- coldtea 7y ago
  >or get a job where men stick their penises in you a dozen times a day. How is that different from lifting boxes in some factory job, or whatever menial work? I mean, I know the e.g. Christian answer. What would the distinction be, however, without giving some special negative spiritual quality to having sex?
didibus 7y ago
I think something that needs to happen isn't just to legalize it, that's just a small first step, the more impactful one would be to moralize it, make it normal and acceptable, remove all stigma around it. If you did the latter, you would change the market for it, and open up the door for non exploited workers in the field. When others give you strange looks, when families disavow you, when people demonize you, shout you names, refuse you work in other fields, look at you with disdain and pity, etc.. It's no wonder the only people who still go through with getting in the field are exploited. Why would anyone do it otherwise? Making it legal doesn't change that. And that goes for the customer base as well. The stigma is high, so who ends up being the target market? A bad crowd of people, that's what. The people who aren't affected by the stigma of seeking sex and drugs for money. And again, that doesn't change by making it legal.

pyrale 7y ago

> The work involving sex doesn't make it significantly more exploitative than [...] driving for Uber How many uber drivers were assaulted or killed in the last month? How many are coerced into driving for uber, and have their gains captured by third party? In which cities are there rings traficking slaves to drive uber cabs? What is the mean age of death for uber drivers? I mean, please... do yourself a favour and research a bit before you make such ignorant claims.

coldtea 7y ago
What about those, that, as in TFA, say that they do it by choice, it's a job, and that the government/"concerned citizens" should leave them the duck alone?
DoreenMichele 7y ago
There has been a recent rash of taxi driver suicides. It is being largely attributed to the rise of services like Uber. There are many articles about the dark side of the Gig Economy and how much workers feel exploited, don't have healthcare, etc. I do gig work and I think it has potential to do good things for the world, but my views are in the minority. Most people see the Gig Economy as an evil force doing nothing but exploiting workers and that exploitation absolutely kills people at times. There is substantial evidence that a large part of the danger involved in sex work comes from the fact that it is criminalized. This fact actively makes it harder for sex workers to operate safely. Uber drivers do not have that problem.
goobynight 7y ago
Good question. Are we talking about sex workers globally or in countries where it is legalized and centralized? I'm comparing specifically to places like Hong Kong and Amsterdam that have this work legalized, which is the topic at hand. OP wants the red light district either moved or removed. Prostitution is going to exist in some form. I think we agree there, so do you think moving it outside of the city center is going to improve the situation for these women? I feel like it would do the opposite.

briandear 7y ago

You are suggesting sex work is preferable to Uber? Have you ever been a sex worker? I am as libertarian as it comes, but that false dichotomy is ridiculous. Either get “exploited” by Uber or get a job where men stick their penises in you a dozen times a day. But at least you aren’t being “exploited” by some filthy VC-funded capitalists right?

tempguy9999 7y ago
Perhaps you should not assume stuff. Not all prostitutes dislike their work; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346209 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346209 Now, an actual fact, I knew a guy, a licensed accountant, about 20 years ago who did the accounts of a working lady (ok, prostitute). He said she was pulling in about £80,000/year. He didn't say whether she liked her job so I can't help you there.
- hollerith 7y ago
  Did he say how many "sales" she had to make to earn that £80,000?
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    Ah, hollerith from TheRegister? If so, hail and well met.
    - hollerith 7y ago
      I'm a different hollerith.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    I've no more information than what I posted. I can pretty safely assume she wasn't a streetwalker (they don't make much, I do not envy them at all).
coldtea 7y ago
>or get a job where men stick their penises in you a dozen times a day. How is that different from lifting boxes in some factory job, or whatever menial work? I mean, I know the e.g. Christian answer. What would the distinction be, however, without giving some special negative spiritual quality to having sex?

didibus 7y ago

I think something that needs to happen isn't just to legalize it, that's just a small first step, the more impactful one would be to moralize it, make it normal and acceptable, remove all stigma around it. If you did the latter, you would change the market for it, and open up the door for non exploited workers in the field. When others give you strange looks, when families disavow you, when people demonize you, shout you names, refuse you work in other fields, look at you with disdain and pity, etc.. It's no wonder the only people who still go through with getting in the field are exploited. Why would anyone do it otherwise? Making it legal doesn't change that. And that goes for the customer base as well. The stigma is high, so who ends up being the target market? A bad crowd of people, that's what. The people who aren't affected by the stigma of seeking sex and drugs for money. And again, that doesn't change by making it legal.