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Obesity isn't caused by abundance. On the contrary, poverty is strongly correlated with obesity in the US[1]--which indeed points to an inequality link. The co

Obesity isn't caused by abundance. On the contrary, poverty is strongly correlated with obesity in the US[1]--which indeed points to an inequality link. The correlation between poverty and drug use is strongly politicized, so much so that the top search results on Google for "substance abuse and poverty" are all political faux-informational sites. Data is hard to find. But this is also because the data is less clear. Alcohol/marijuana are used the most in a) high income areas, and b) areas with large income inequality[2] (again an inequality link, but in slightly unexpected ways). I've found numerous sources claiming that two studies exists: The first study supposedly shows that heroin use is rising across all income brackets, while other illicit substances (besides heroin and marijuana) are more prevalent in low-income brackets. The second study supposedly shows that prescription drugs are more prevalent in lower income brackets. However, I have not been able to locate these studies (I'm guessing this is because they are behind paywalls). Assuming all these sources aren't lying about the studies existing, I think the data does indicate a link between inequality and substance abuse (although it is not nearly as clear as the link between inequality and obesity). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3198075/ [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1974881/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1974881/

_bxg1 7y ago
> Obesity isn't caused by abundance. On the contrary, poverty is strongly correlated with obesity in the US[1]--which indeed points to an inequality link. Yep. You can see this in my state (Texas) simply by driving from a metroplex a couple of hours out into the country. Obesity visibly skyrockets. Part of it is cultural, but part of it is economic. Healthy food is simply more expensive, especially if you want it to taste good.
- thrower123 7y ago
  > Part of it is cultural, but part of it is economic. Healthy food is simply more expensive, especially if you want it to taste good. This canard keeps getting thrown out, but it is absolutely not more expensive to eat healthy, apart from needing to have some tiny semblance of skill in the kitchen. Buying real food is cheaper than buying processed garbage, and it's not like an EBT card only works for buying eggo waffles and Doritos, rather than frozen peas and porkchops. It's entirely cultural.
  - asdff 7y ago
    Healthy food takes time to prepare and make as well, which is hard when you work 60 hour weeks to make rent before any other expenses.
    - P_I_Staker 7y ago
      That part is somewhat true. It's the illusive cheap, healthy, tasty, fast combo that's so hard to achieve. I have to agree with OP about cost though. There are even decent healthy frozen products that are affordable (most people could spend $1 on veg; they wouldn't think twice spending that on a drink) and take no effort. Frozen chicken breasts can be thrown directly in oven and eaten with mixed spices and/or sauce. It is doable.
      - _bxg1 7y ago
        > There are even decent healthy frozen products that are affordable Most of them cost a dollar or two extra, though. The people on HN probably have a skewed perspective on what amount of money starts to matter; for some people $1 more for a meal really does matter.
        P_I_Staker 7y ago
        Nope. I'm aware of this. It depends what you get; I've done it. There are absolutely low cost, high nutritional options that don't require effort. Some of the cheapest frozen food is high in nutrition. You can get frozen chicken breasts cheap, not necessarily as cheap as fresh, but much less than the unhealthy options. Frozen vegtables are purchased on sale and cost 50c per serving. There's cans too. Carbs are easy. If you manage your kitchen correctly, you don't even need to go frozen. Honestly, even the "banquit"/healthy choice options aren't always that much, and can be worked into a healthy diet. Fruit isn't that expensive either, if you buy in the right season and don't get something exotic. I understand obesity is correlated with poverty, and don't blame anyone for it (I don't consider it their fault). The reality is that you can eat healthy on a budget, and nutritious food doesn't need to cost anything extra. Unfortunatly, many of these people are living in "food deserts" and good supermarkets aren't always available.
- thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
  check my above post, you can eat healthy and cost effectively as well.
- brandonmenc 7y ago
  > Healthy food is simply more expensive Not. True. It just isn't. It's true that _many_ healthy foods - particularly when purchased pre-prepared - are expensive. Many unhealthy foods are also expensive. However, consider beans. They're one of the healthiest foods, are extremely cheap, and so convenient that you can eat them right out of the can. $2 gets you two cans - 700 calories - full of fiber, protein, and vitamins. Or, for the same price, you can get a 500 calorie Bacon McDouble. The problem is not that "all healthy food is expensive" - it's not - it's that there are a lot of very tasty, very cheap, extremely _calorie dense_ foods, and a lot of people who lack the knowledge or willpower - yes, qualities that are often the product of poverty - to stop eating those foods all the time. But the healthy food itself isn't expensive.
war1025 7y ago
Obesity is caused by shitty diet and "normalization of deviance" since a better term escapes me right now. People eat too much low value food. Some of that is due to poverty, but when over half the population is overweight, it isn't just an issue of lack of good food. It's bad choices. Largely brought on by bad government advice and incentives. Edit: Expanding a bit, I recently talked with a couple friends from college. One had lost 100lbs and another had lost quite a bit of weight. The main change they made was to cut out soft drinks. One of them said, "Why didn't anyone tell me that's a bad idea?" Worded another way, I've heard it explained before that we tell people "eat more of this". People take that to mean "Eat what you already eat, plus these things, and you will be healthy." What it actually means is "Don't eat this garbage that is making you sick." But it's never worded that way. Add to that the fact that all government nutrition advice is basically just pandering to the highest bidder with little regard for what actually makes for a healthy diet, and it's no wonder people have so many problems.
humble_engineer 7y ago
Obesity is not caused by poverty. Poor people are stupid and they make bad decisions. I'm sorry if the truth offends you. Keep searching for that rosy ignorance that soothes you.
thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
although it's true that poverty results in greater obesity in the US, it doesn't have to be this way. Some of the healthiest foods out there are also among the very cheapest. You can construct an incredibly healthy diet on just 2$ - 4$ per day or less: rolled oats (70c/lb or less) -> can be used to make oat milk, oat meal, baked goods, etc and it lowers your LDL with tons of health benefits. Other things all can be found for less than 1$/lb => bananas, apples, onions, beans, rice (38c/lb or less at costco!!), bell peppers, grapes (sometimes), potatoes, lentils, etc. Oatmeal and Beans are a superfood, greatly undervalued in our society. The key is to shop in the bulk section of the store. All these things and more are at least 10 times less costly than mcDonalds, we just need to get the word out. Once there's consumer demand for these things we can start alleviating the food dessert areas in the US.

_bxg1 7y ago

> Obesity isn't caused by abundance. On the contrary, poverty is strongly correlated with obesity in the US[1]--which indeed points to an inequality link. Yep. You can see this in my state (Texas) simply by driving from a metroplex a couple of hours out into the country. Obesity visibly skyrockets. Part of it is cultural, but part of it is economic. Healthy food is simply more expensive, especially if you want it to taste good.

thrower123 7y ago
> Part of it is cultural, but part of it is economic. Healthy food is simply more expensive, especially if you want it to taste good. This canard keeps getting thrown out, but it is absolutely not more expensive to eat healthy, apart from needing to have some tiny semblance of skill in the kitchen. Buying real food is cheaper than buying processed garbage, and it's not like an EBT card only works for buying eggo waffles and Doritos, rather than frozen peas and porkchops. It's entirely cultural.
- asdff 7y ago
  Healthy food takes time to prepare and make as well, which is hard when you work 60 hour weeks to make rent before any other expenses.
  - P_I_Staker 7y ago
    That part is somewhat true. It's the illusive cheap, healthy, tasty, fast combo that's so hard to achieve. I have to agree with OP about cost though. There are even decent healthy frozen products that are affordable (most people could spend $1 on veg; they wouldn't think twice spending that on a drink) and take no effort. Frozen chicken breasts can be thrown directly in oven and eaten with mixed spices and/or sauce. It is doable.
    - _bxg1 7y ago
      > There are even decent healthy frozen products that are affordable Most of them cost a dollar or two extra, though. The people on HN probably have a skewed perspective on what amount of money starts to matter; for some people $1 more for a meal really does matter.
      - P_I_Staker 7y ago
        Nope. I'm aware of this. It depends what you get; I've done it. There are absolutely low cost, high nutritional options that don't require effort. Some of the cheapest frozen food is high in nutrition. You can get frozen chicken breasts cheap, not necessarily as cheap as fresh, but much less than the unhealthy options. Frozen vegtables are purchased on sale and cost 50c per serving. There's cans too. Carbs are easy. If you manage your kitchen correctly, you don't even need to go frozen. Honestly, even the "banquit"/healthy choice options aren't always that much, and can be worked into a healthy diet. Fruit isn't that expensive either, if you buy in the right season and don't get something exotic. I understand obesity is correlated with poverty, and don't blame anyone for it (I don't consider it their fault). The reality is that you can eat healthy on a budget, and nutritious food doesn't need to cost anything extra. Unfortunatly, many of these people are living in "food deserts" and good supermarkets aren't always available.
thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
check my above post, you can eat healthy and cost effectively as well.
brandonmenc 7y ago
> Healthy food is simply more expensive Not. True. It just isn't. It's true that _many_ healthy foods - particularly when purchased pre-prepared - are expensive. Many unhealthy foods are also expensive. However, consider beans. They're one of the healthiest foods, are extremely cheap, and so convenient that you can eat them right out of the can. $2 gets you two cans - 700 calories - full of fiber, protein, and vitamins. Or, for the same price, you can get a 500 calorie Bacon McDouble. The problem is not that "all healthy food is expensive" - it's not - it's that there are a lot of very tasty, very cheap, extremely _calorie dense_ foods, and a lot of people who lack the knowledge or willpower - yes, qualities that are often the product of poverty - to stop eating those foods all the time. But the healthy food itself isn't expensive.

war1025 7y ago

Obesity is caused by shitty diet and "normalization of deviance" since a better term escapes me right now. People eat too much low value food. Some of that is due to poverty, but when over half the population is overweight, it isn't just an issue of lack of good food. It's bad choices. Largely brought on by bad government advice and incentives. Edit: Expanding a bit, I recently talked with a couple friends from college. One had lost 100lbs and another had lost quite a bit of weight. The main change they made was to cut out soft drinks. One of them said, "Why didn't anyone tell me that's a bad idea?" Worded another way, I've heard it explained before that we tell people "eat more of this". People take that to mean "Eat what you already eat, plus these things, and you will be healthy." What it actually means is "Don't eat this garbage that is making you sick." But it's never worded that way. Add to that the fact that all government nutrition advice is basically just pandering to the highest bidder with little regard for what actually makes for a healthy diet, and it's no wonder people have so many problems.

humble_engineer 7y ago

Obesity is not caused by poverty. Poor people are stupid and they make bad decisions. I'm sorry if the truth offends you. Keep searching for that rosy ignorance that soothes you.

thorwasdfasdf 7y ago

although it's true that poverty results in greater obesity in the US, it doesn't have to be this way. Some of the healthiest foods out there are also among the very cheapest. You can construct an incredibly healthy diet on just 2$ - 4$ per day or less: rolled oats (70c/lb or less) -> can be used to make oat milk, oat meal, baked goods, etc and it lowers your LDL with tons of health benefits. Other things all can be found for less than 1$/lb => bananas, apples, onions, beans, rice (38c/lb or less at costco!!), bell peppers, grapes (sometimes), potatoes, lentils, etc. Oatmeal and Beans are a superfood, greatly undervalued in our society. The key is to shop in the bulk section of the store. All these things and more are at least 10 times less costly than mcDonalds, we just need to get the word out. Once there's consumer demand for these things we can start alleviating the food dessert areas in the US.