5 ms·

I don't lock my phone at all. Never have. However, with the new iPhones that don't have a home button, I believe that Apple is forcing you to either use face un

I don't lock my phone at all. Never have. However, with the new iPhones that don't have a home button, I believe that Apple is forcing you to either use face unlock or a passcode. There is no choice to just leave it unlocked. So, as soon as my iPhone 6s stops working, I will have to choose to: 1) Give in and use my face to unlock. 2) Use a dumb passcode like 000000. 3) Upgrade to the newest iPhone that still has a home button (I think iPhone 8) or 4) Become and Android user.

berdon 7y ago
5) Accept responsibility and lock your device
abstractbeliefs 7y ago
Why is it that you choose not to? I think it would be helpful to understand your use case and how you balance your personal tolerance for risk and consequences so we can better consider users like yourself.
- _jal 7y ago
  (Not the OP.) I have an older phone that is basically a home remote for various things. There is no reason for it to lock, it would be annoying.
  - Jill_the_Pill 7y ago
    Also not the OP, also have an older phone. I am of an older tech generation who sees this type of security as antithetical to anonymity.
- Dragonai 7y ago
  Comments like the parent comment never fail to fascinate me - far and away, I have never seen more uncommon/unusual use cases for pretty much anything than I do on Hacker News. I don't mean that in a negative way at all, I mean it's just amazing how diverse a crowd we have on here and I love how many perspectives we end up seeing in the comments.
- barneygumble742 7y ago
  My phone never leaves my sight. I don't do mobile banking of any kind. I can sign out/remotely wipe the device via the web. It would be nice to remotely turn ON the GPS to find my phone but Android has since removed the remote GPS ON feature. If only I can find a smartphone for talk/text/web/GPS, I'd be switch in a heartbeat. I'm seriously getting sick of the all the security features that tend to bloat the device and slow it to a crawl. That being said, if my phone was vulnerable to theft or I wasn't so careful, I would lock my screen.
- droithomme 7y ago
  Not him but I also leave my iPhone wide open. I primarily use it as a camera and tape recorder. And mobile wifi web browser with retina resolution in rare cases, all in which I specifically avoid using it to use any sites that require logging in. I have a fake name on it. There are no contacts or email accounts set up on it. It's not ever been activated as a cell phone. Basically, I see no reason to have a password on it, and a password slows things down slightly and has the risk of forgetting (since I never reuse passwords), so why bother. My Android phone that I do use as a cell phone though I have a password on it. It has similarly few personal details, but the call logs would make it easy to identify me. Granted the iPhone's location logging though disabled might be storing info anyway, and probably the photos are GPS tagged, so those things would identify me.
dpcan 7y ago
I think your point may be that he doesn't have anything private on the phone to worry about or anything that needs to be kept secure? I think the argument hidden in the headline here is that since this is a device owned by a congressman, and allowed inside this particular meeting, it has information on it that may be confidential, and therefore needs a much stronger password. My phone has access to my email, phone number, texting. With these 3 things you can get into my bank account, access to my domains, and into any online account I hold. Then, personally and professionally, I manage other peoples' accounts, so, with my phone, you can probably social-engineer your way into those as well. My point is, if you are married, have a job, email, or have other people in your life that you don't want to go through an identity theft crisis, or get hacked, stalked, etc, you should lock your phone. Maybe you aren't the target, but you are the wide-open back door into their life.
- wayneftw 7y ago
  Nobody in my contacts has given me non-public contact info such as secret phone numbers, email addresses or other such info. I don't manage other peoples accounts from my phone. My passwords are stored in an encrypted file, accessible only by entering my pin. My email app has a pin lock. I don't use the browser to login to any important sites like banking sites. If you get my phone, the most you can do is order something for me on Amazon (it will be shipped to me, else you have to enter your own credit card) or you can mess with my GitHub content.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - dwild 7y ago
    You can also most probably install an application that will be able to catch both your pins and subsequently, much more data. Considering that both your password and email are protected by pins, why not have a pin on the device too?
    - wayneftw 7y ago
      Looking at email or passwords is rare. Reading some quick news, opening maps, listening to music and so forth - I don't want to use a pin to access all of those things. Someone installing an app to catch pins that I typed in and then giving me back my phone...then waiting until I typed a pin and stealing my phone again seems like a bit of a hassle. Out of curiosity though - what app in the app store allows you to do this? Or, do they have to jail break my phone to do it? I'm not really trying to argue that my way is better. I'm just giving my personal point of view. It works for me. I just don't worry about things and shit seems to work out. I leave my house unlocked all the time. Same with my car. I leave the keys in the car when I go into stores. It's just stuff. Perhaps if someone stole everything from me, I'd be even more free than I am now.
weaksauce 7y ago
I was just using an iPhone without a home button and you don’t need a passcode or facial recognition to use it. Just swipe up from the bottom.
- probablyexists 7y ago
  I'm not sure I follow... You don't need a passcode or facial recognition to access any phone that doesn't have those features enabled. If you enable them you certainly do.
  - weaksauce 7y ago
    well, I'm replying to a person that said: > I don't lock my phone at all. Never have. However, with the new iPhones that don't have a home button, I believe that Apple is forcing you to either use face unlock or a passcode. There is no choice to just leave it unlocked. And I'm saying that you can use it without those features enabled; even on iPhones without a home button.
psychometry 7y ago
How do all the people you communicate with via email, text, etc., feel about their contact information and messages with you being so easily accessible? Securing your devices isn't just about you...
- wayneftw 7y ago
  They're absolutely fine with it. Contact information isn't secret.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > contact information and messages
  - psychometry 7y ago
    Yeah? Did you ask every single one of them? Also, while it might not be too difficult for someone to figure out my phone number and/or email address from my name, it's not like there's a public directory of either. "Not secret" does not should not equal "public".
wycy 7y ago
Why do you not want to use your face? And I don't think the lack of a home button changes whether or not you have to use a passcode. I haven't seen anything to indicate that the new iPhones can't be passcodeless (though I don't want to clear my FaceID data to test this). Just swipe up to unlock.
- wayneftw 7y ago
  Thanks for this! I'll go to the Apple store and test it.
  - wycy 7y ago
    Actually, the Apple store phones are all already set up this way: no passcode, no FaceID, swipe up to unlock.
swozey 7y ago
When I was a kid my house was "broken into" but because the door was unlocked the police couldn't qualify it as breaking and entering. It was merely trespassing and my neighbor who did it got off. I was 12, these details may be a bit fuzzy. I chased the guy off so nothing was taken, he just walked in, saw me running to the door and ran back out. Supposedly he was just drunk and wandered into the wrong house anyway. I'm curious what affect not locking your phone might have on police reports if your identity/etc is ever stolen and you need to provide police reports. Possibly nothing, but I can imagine some credit cards legal team working hard on that aspect of things in the event you're trying to convince AMEX to return $40k of transactions you supposedly didn't make yourself and need reversed because your phone was swiped while logged into some CC app and they copied your card number.
- dwild 7y ago
  > Supposedly he was just drunk and wandered into the wrong house anyway. That's what made him fine, not the fact that you didn't lock. That's a thing that quite misunderstood, but for a crime to be committed, you need criminal intent. If you just made a mistake and weren't aware it wasn't your house, it's not a crime to enter it.
  - swozey 7y ago
    You're likely right and it was just my parents and police scaring me into keeping the doors locked. He wasn't arrested until the next day (had no idea he was a neighbor, he lived a few blocks away) when the police realized who he was. But that's also the thing- we had no idea what his intent was. I do recall the police that night seeming less concerned because the door was unlocked and I was chided quite a bit. I do recall them telling me what I said in my initial post but I also understand criminal intent. Personally I'm glad the guy wasn't wrung up with a felony if he was just on some ambien sleepwalk bender or whatever he was on.
  - tialaramex 7y ago
    Not all crimes require intent. Crimes where intent is not required are called "Strict liability" crimes, for those crimes it is sufficient to prove that the accused did the thing which is forbidden, and it's entirely irrelevant (to guilt, though not necessarily to sentencing) why they did it. Also for some crimes the intent needn't match the outcome. For example in the UK _Attempted Murder_ requires (as well as facts of an attempt) you had an intent to kill, but _Murder_ only requires that you had an intent to at least cause grave harm, the fact of death makes it murder, even if a jury believes you intended only, say, to hospitalize the victim.
alphabettsy 7y ago
You can still choose not to have a passcode on newer iPhones. That said, I have a really good friend that chooses not to use a passcode for their phone. Somewhat irritating because being a really close friend we sometimes have very personal conversations via text, and the fact the they don’t lock their phone means I have to be conscious of that. These aren’t deep-dark secrets, but still personal things I wouldn’t share publicly.

berdon 7y ago

5) Accept responsibility and lock your device

abstractbeliefs 7y ago

Why is it that you choose not to? I think it would be helpful to understand your use case and how you balance your personal tolerance for risk and consequences so we can better consider users like yourself.

_jal 7y ago
(Not the OP.) I have an older phone that is basically a home remote for various things. There is no reason for it to lock, it would be annoying.
- Jill_the_Pill 7y ago
  Also not the OP, also have an older phone. I am of an older tech generation who sees this type of security as antithetical to anonymity.
Dragonai 7y ago
Comments like the parent comment never fail to fascinate me - far and away, I have never seen more uncommon/unusual use cases for pretty much anything than I do on Hacker News. I don't mean that in a negative way at all, I mean it's just amazing how diverse a crowd we have on here and I love how many perspectives we end up seeing in the comments.
barneygumble742 7y ago
My phone never leaves my sight. I don't do mobile banking of any kind. I can sign out/remotely wipe the device via the web. It would be nice to remotely turn ON the GPS to find my phone but Android has since removed the remote GPS ON feature. If only I can find a smartphone for talk/text/web/GPS, I'd be switch in a heartbeat. I'm seriously getting sick of the all the security features that tend to bloat the device and slow it to a crawl. That being said, if my phone was vulnerable to theft or I wasn't so careful, I would lock my screen.
droithomme 7y ago
Not him but I also leave my iPhone wide open. I primarily use it as a camera and tape recorder. And mobile wifi web browser with retina resolution in rare cases, all in which I specifically avoid using it to use any sites that require logging in. I have a fake name on it. There are no contacts or email accounts set up on it. It's not ever been activated as a cell phone. Basically, I see no reason to have a password on it, and a password slows things down slightly and has the risk of forgetting (since I never reuse passwords), so why bother. My Android phone that I do use as a cell phone though I have a password on it. It has similarly few personal details, but the call logs would make it easy to identify me. Granted the iPhone's location logging though disabled might be storing info anyway, and probably the photos are GPS tagged, so those things would identify me.

dpcan 7y ago

I think your point may be that he doesn't have anything private on the phone to worry about or anything that needs to be kept secure? I think the argument hidden in the headline here is that since this is a device owned by a congressman, and allowed inside this particular meeting, it has information on it that may be confidential, and therefore needs a much stronger password. My phone has access to my email, phone number, texting. With these 3 things you can get into my bank account, access to my domains, and into any online account I hold. Then, personally and professionally, I manage other peoples' accounts, so, with my phone, you can probably social-engineer your way into those as well. My point is, if you are married, have a job, email, or have other people in your life that you don't want to go through an identity theft crisis, or get hacked, stalked, etc, you should lock your phone. Maybe you aren't the target, but you are the wide-open back door into their life.

wayneftw 7y ago
Nobody in my contacts has given me non-public contact info such as secret phone numbers, email addresses or other such info. I don't manage other peoples accounts from my phone. My passwords are stored in an encrypted file, accessible only by entering my pin. My email app has a pin lock. I don't use the browser to login to any important sites like banking sites. If you get my phone, the most you can do is order something for me on Amazon (it will be shipped to me, else you have to enter your own credit card) or you can mess with my GitHub content.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dwild 7y ago
  You can also most probably install an application that will be able to catch both your pins and subsequently, much more data. Considering that both your password and email are protected by pins, why not have a pin on the device too?
  - wayneftw 7y ago
    Looking at email or passwords is rare. Reading some quick news, opening maps, listening to music and so forth - I don't want to use a pin to access all of those things. Someone installing an app to catch pins that I typed in and then giving me back my phone...then waiting until I typed a pin and stealing my phone again seems like a bit of a hassle. Out of curiosity though - what app in the app store allows you to do this? Or, do they have to jail break my phone to do it? I'm not really trying to argue that my way is better. I'm just giving my personal point of view. It works for me. I just don't worry about things and shit seems to work out. I leave my house unlocked all the time. Same with my car. I leave the keys in the car when I go into stores. It's just stuff. Perhaps if someone stole everything from me, I'd be even more free than I am now.

weaksauce 7y ago

I was just using an iPhone without a home button and you don’t need a passcode or facial recognition to use it. Just swipe up from the bottom.

probablyexists 7y ago
I'm not sure I follow... You don't need a passcode or facial recognition to access any phone that doesn't have those features enabled. If you enable them you certainly do.
- weaksauce 7y ago
  well, I'm replying to a person that said: > I don't lock my phone at all. Never have. However, with the new iPhones that don't have a home button, I believe that Apple is forcing you to either use face unlock or a passcode. There is no choice to just leave it unlocked. And I'm saying that you can use it without those features enabled; even on iPhones without a home button.

psychometry 7y ago

How do all the people you communicate with via email, text, etc., feel about their contact information and messages with you being so easily accessible? Securing your devices isn't just about you...

wayneftw 7y ago
They're absolutely fine with it. Contact information isn't secret.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > contact information and messages
- psychometry 7y ago
  Yeah? Did you ask every single one of them? Also, while it might not be too difficult for someone to figure out my phone number and/or email address from my name, it's not like there's a public directory of either. "Not secret" does not should not equal "public".

wycy 7y ago

Why do you not want to use your face? And I don't think the lack of a home button changes whether or not you have to use a passcode. I haven't seen anything to indicate that the new iPhones can't be passcodeless (though I don't want to clear my FaceID data to test this). Just swipe up to unlock.

wayneftw 7y ago
Thanks for this! I'll go to the Apple store and test it.
- wycy 7y ago
  Actually, the Apple store phones are all already set up this way: no passcode, no FaceID, swipe up to unlock.

swozey 7y ago

When I was a kid my house was "broken into" but because the door was unlocked the police couldn't qualify it as breaking and entering. It was merely trespassing and my neighbor who did it got off. I was 12, these details may be a bit fuzzy. I chased the guy off so nothing was taken, he just walked in, saw me running to the door and ran back out. Supposedly he was just drunk and wandered into the wrong house anyway. I'm curious what affect not locking your phone might have on police reports if your identity/etc is ever stolen and you need to provide police reports. Possibly nothing, but I can imagine some credit cards legal team working hard on that aspect of things in the event you're trying to convince AMEX to return $40k of transactions you supposedly didn't make yourself and need reversed because your phone was swiped while logged into some CC app and they copied your card number.

dwild 7y ago
> Supposedly he was just drunk and wandered into the wrong house anyway. That's what made him fine, not the fact that you didn't lock. That's a thing that quite misunderstood, but for a crime to be committed, you need criminal intent. If you just made a mistake and weren't aware it wasn't your house, it's not a crime to enter it.
- swozey 7y ago
  You're likely right and it was just my parents and police scaring me into keeping the doors locked. He wasn't arrested until the next day (had no idea he was a neighbor, he lived a few blocks away) when the police realized who he was. But that's also the thing- we had no idea what his intent was. I do recall the police that night seeming less concerned because the door was unlocked and I was chided quite a bit. I do recall them telling me what I said in my initial post but I also understand criminal intent. Personally I'm glad the guy wasn't wrung up with a felony if he was just on some ambien sleepwalk bender or whatever he was on.
- tialaramex 7y ago
  Not all crimes require intent. Crimes where intent is not required are called "Strict liability" crimes, for those crimes it is sufficient to prove that the accused did the thing which is forbidden, and it's entirely irrelevant (to guilt, though not necessarily to sentencing) why they did it. Also for some crimes the intent needn't match the outcome. For example in the UK _Attempted Murder_ requires (as well as facts of an attempt) you had an intent to kill, but _Murder_ only requires that you had an intent to at least cause grave harm, the fact of death makes it murder, even if a jury believes you intended only, say, to hospitalize the victim.

alphabettsy 7y ago

You can still choose not to have a passcode on newer iPhones. That said, I have a really good friend that chooses not to use a passcode for their phone. Somewhat irritating because being a really close friend we sometimes have very personal conversations via text, and the fact the they don’t lock their phone means I have to be conscious of that. These aren’t deep-dark secrets, but still personal things I wouldn’t share publicly.