8 ms·

Not sure why the "opt-in" option isnt more apparent as a less hostile UX? I've always thought of Gitlab as a privacy minded company, until now, and the botched

Not sure why the "opt-in" option isnt more apparent as a less hostile UX? I've always thought of Gitlab as a privacy minded company, until now, and the botched attempts to listen to feedback are only worsening my impression. Please prove me wrong!

sytse 7y ago
"Not sure why the "opt-in" option isnt more apparent as a less hostile UX?" do you mean having to use DNT to opt out?
- thsowers 7y ago
  No, I mean opt-in to telemetry as opposed to having to opt-out would be more ideal
- _-___________-_ 7y ago
  Not all browsers make it easy to turn DNT on (Safari has apparently removed it), so it's not an ideal opt-out mechanism. DNT is basically a failed technology; if you really care about not being tracked you would just block the trackers rather than asking them to pretty please not track you. (Edited to add: as others have said, this should not be opt-out anyway. Opt-in is much less user hostile, and as far as I know is legally mandated in the EU anyway.)
- wastedhours 7y ago
  The issue is forcing this as "opt-out" rather than "opt-in". Opt-out is pretty hostile UX for something you must have known would be seen as a negative by large swathes of the developer audience (and if you didn't see the negative reaction coming, then there's larger questions to be asked). I'm a free user, so I'm "happy" insofar as I have very little say, but it's certainly a worrying step.
  - sytse 7y ago
    Thanks. We will revisit opt-in vs. opt-out, especially for self-hosted installations. We didn't expect praise for more telemetry from the developer audience but we did underestimate the reaction. There were many more concerns than we expected. We’re going to process the feedback and rethink our plan. We will not activate tracing on GitLab.com or GitLab self-managed for now. We'll make sure to communicate in advance on our blog when we do have a new plan.
    - alangibson 7y ago
      > we did underestimate the reaction Be serious. You knew what the reaction would be. You gambled on it getting missed by the community and lost.
      - sytse 7y ago
        As said we didn't expect praise. We published this change in a blog post and sent an email.
    - bdcravens 7y ago
      Typically when Github “copies” a feature, there’s a blog post within a couple of hours.
    - wastedhours 7y ago
      Thanks for the reply, and glad to hear about the review - am still surprised to hear the reaction was larger than expected though. The narrative is rather predictable - "community minded tech company raises cash, has ultra valuation, starts imposing tracking onto users etc..." Fair or not, that's the leagues now. Also, might be a learning about engaging the community on things it understands - a common user of a SaaS platform might not have an understanding of tech, but a common user of a developer SaaS platform does. If when I had next logged into the dashboard I got a modal that asked me "hey, here's a list of things we'd like to monitor to make your experience better, what data would you be happy we looked at?" I'd probably opt-in to some just to be helpful as I know the context. I'm guessing a lot of your mid-market acquisition (though likely not revenue) is through word of mouth, migrations or "dark procurement" (?) - audiences that are ultra-sensitive to this sort of thing, so the misstep here is a question.
- time0ut 7y ago
  Using DNT as an opt out mechanism is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't impact us yet (EE) luckily. This would put us in a tough spot as we are required to control this sort of thing, but have no way enforcing it with our third party developer community. It is a worrying misstep from my perspective.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

sytse 7y ago

"Not sure why the "opt-in" option isnt more apparent as a less hostile UX?" do you mean having to use DNT to opt out?

thsowers 7y ago
No, I mean opt-in to telemetry as opposed to having to opt-out would be more ideal
_-___________-_ 7y ago
Not all browsers make it easy to turn DNT on (Safari has apparently removed it), so it's not an ideal opt-out mechanism. DNT is basically a failed technology; if you really care about not being tracked you would just block the trackers rather than asking them to pretty please not track you. (Edited to add: as others have said, this should not be opt-out anyway. Opt-in is much less user hostile, and as far as I know is legally mandated in the EU anyway.)
wastedhours 7y ago
The issue is forcing this as "opt-out" rather than "opt-in". Opt-out is pretty hostile UX for something you must have known would be seen as a negative by large swathes of the developer audience (and if you didn't see the negative reaction coming, then there's larger questions to be asked). I'm a free user, so I'm "happy" insofar as I have very little say, but it's certainly a worrying step.
- sytse 7y ago
  Thanks. We will revisit opt-in vs. opt-out, especially for self-hosted installations. We didn't expect praise for more telemetry from the developer audience but we did underestimate the reaction. There were many more concerns than we expected. We’re going to process the feedback and rethink our plan. We will not activate tracing on GitLab.com or GitLab self-managed for now. We'll make sure to communicate in advance on our blog when we do have a new plan.
  - alangibson 7y ago
    > we did underestimate the reaction Be serious. You knew what the reaction would be. You gambled on it getting missed by the community and lost.
    - sytse 7y ago
      As said we didn't expect praise. We published this change in a blog post and sent an email.
  - bdcravens 7y ago
    Typically when Github “copies” a feature, there’s a blog post within a couple of hours.
  - wastedhours 7y ago
    Thanks for the reply, and glad to hear about the review - am still surprised to hear the reaction was larger than expected though. The narrative is rather predictable - "community minded tech company raises cash, has ultra valuation, starts imposing tracking onto users etc..." Fair or not, that's the leagues now. Also, might be a learning about engaging the community on things it understands - a common user of a SaaS platform might not have an understanding of tech, but a common user of a developer SaaS platform does. If when I had next logged into the dashboard I got a modal that asked me "hey, here's a list of things we'd like to monitor to make your experience better, what data would you be happy we looked at?" I'd probably opt-in to some just to be helpful as I know the context. I'm guessing a lot of your mid-market acquisition (though likely not revenue) is through word of mouth, migrations or "dark procurement" (?) - audiences that are ultra-sensitive to this sort of thing, so the misstep here is a question.
time0ut 7y ago
Using DNT as an opt out mechanism is beyond ridiculous. It doesn't impact us yet (EE) luckily. This would put us in a tough spot as we are required to control this sort of thing, but have no way enforcing it with our third party developer community. It is a worrying misstep from my perspective.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]