7 ms·

I’ve given a lot of thought to this problem lately after becoming a parent. However, I just can’t picture trusting this to a third party. Ideally I’d store my m

I’ve given a lot of thought to this problem lately after becoming a parent. However, I just can’t picture trusting this to a third party. Ideally I’d store my master password to my password manager and give instructions on what accounts exist and what to do with them. By storing this on someone else’s server I’m at risk of that data being leaked which is effectively the ‘keys to the kingdom’. You can talk about encryption all you want but without knowing what’s actually happening with that extremely sensitive data behind the scenes I cannot trust your product. Perhaps a Bitwarden style model where the source is provided could be a solution? Because Bitwarden is open source, self-host able, and audited I can have some degree of comfort that my data is actually encrypted client side and stored safely. Speaking of the problem space, what non-tech techniques do people use for this scenario? The best I’ve been able to come up with is storing the information in two safes and leaving instructions on how to open the safe in a will or with trusted persons. Other thoughts?

edoo 7y ago
I bet someone makes a product with this someday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing. You could in theory have a digital safe that you yourself can open with one key, and a quorum set of 2 keys that require both. You distribute 1/2 combination keys to your kids and keep one yourself. When you die your 1/2 key is passed to the kids who can now open the data. The keys themselves are useless without the other keys so anyone in the chain of custody of the key until it reaches your kids wouldn't be able to open the data. No one would have to have your singular key.
- mrdazm 7y ago
  According to the post below they exist now. I'm hoping for recommendations! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21345210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21345210
- kanzure 7y ago
  You can play around with Shamir's secret sharing here: http://passguardian.com/ http://passguardian.com/
- kirushik 7y ago
  I've wrote https://bs.parity.io/#/ https://bs.parity.io/#/ exactly for this; it also tries to avoid the most obvious opsec mistakes, like trusting your printer too much =) BananaSplit is of very experimental quality, it hasn't been battle-tested and independently reviewed yet. But at least it's there, it's FOSS, and I encourage you inspecting the code, contributing to it, or re-hosting the HTML.
k1t 7y ago
Although I haven't personally set this up, my plan has been to at some point: * Put important documents and passwords in an encrypted archive or true/veracrypt container. * Distribute the archive to relevant parties via physical media (e.g. USB stick), possibly put a public version online on somewhat reliable free hosting. * Store the password to the archive (without any indication as to the purpose of the password) on a service such as the one in the article or an alternative, e.g. Dead Man's Switch Because of the physical distribution of the archive, it makes it hard to change the secrets in the archive - but other than that it seems solid enough... [1] https://www.deadmansswitch.net/ https://www.deadmansswitch.net/
- bronco21016 7y ago
  Interesting idea. I suppose it’s relatively low risk that the secret would be stolen and then connected with the encrypted archive. Thanks!
- deif 7y ago
  I created https://www.deadmantracker.com https://www.deadmantracker.com and am implementing the reverse of this but your solution is a good alternative that I might support too. The way I saw it working was: * Encrypt docs into a compressed archive * Upload encrypted docs to service * Distribute password for unencryption using something not build into the service (tell them via Signal, or Protonmail, or a piece of paper, or word of mouth) * Link for encrypted archive only becomes available once the dead mans switch is triggered In the same way a password could be uploaded and only released when the switch is triggered. A service just can't hold both parts.
Kalium 7y ago
I feel like a bank's safe deposit box system coupled with an estate planning service is the traditional approach to this.
gatherhunterer 7y ago
I hope you’re kidding about the two safes thing. Either hire an attorney for this purpose or accept that your family will have little to no recourse for challenging claims from individuals, businesses and family members who claim rightful ownership of parts of your estate. You can buy all the safes you want but they won’t hold up in court. Even if you want your spouse to be your executor you need an attorney to receive your power of attorney immediately so that they can make him/her the executor. Without an attorney and notarized documents, if someone shows up with a piece of paper that says they get everything and it has your signature then their claim is just as valid as your spouse’s.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >I hope you’re kidding about the two safes thing. Either hire an attorney for this purpose or accept that your family will have little to no recourse for challenging claims Silicon Valley: who needs accountants or lawyers? Also Silicon Valley: how many safes do I need to ensure my spouse can access my KeePass database?
- bronco21016 7y ago
  I think we’re discussing separate things. The idea behind the safes is to store instructions for accessing a password database so loved ones would have access to the various online accounts. Think utility bills, banking, email, etc. If the system for providing a third party (spouse, children, etc) access to online accounts is broken then surely you can see all the ways that ones life could be turned upside down. I’m well aware that I also need an attorney and necessary legal documents for establishing power of attorney and executor of the estate. Would an attorney be an appropriate person to share the information about unlocking my online life with? I know they’re bound by various ethical and legal frameworks but it still doesn’t stop people from doing crazy things.
  - zifnab06 7y ago
    I like 1Passwords auth for this. There's a long key you need once (this stays in a lockbox), and a master password you need every sign in (safety deposit box with no information about what it is).
dharmab 7y ago
I store my information in a safe and happen to be extremely close friends with a few locksmiths.

edoo 7y ago

I bet someone makes a product with this someday https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamir%27s_Secret_Sharing. You could in theory have a digital safe that you yourself can open with one key, and a quorum set of 2 keys that require both. You distribute 1/2 combination keys to your kids and keep one yourself. When you die your 1/2 key is passed to the kids who can now open the data. The keys themselves are useless without the other keys so anyone in the chain of custody of the key until it reaches your kids wouldn't be able to open the data. No one would have to have your singular key.

mrdazm 7y ago
According to the post below they exist now. I'm hoping for recommendations! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21345210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21345210
kanzure 7y ago
You can play around with Shamir's secret sharing here: http://passguardian.com/ http://passguardian.com/
kirushik 7y ago
I've wrote https://bs.parity.io/#/ https://bs.parity.io/#/ exactly for this; it also tries to avoid the most obvious opsec mistakes, like trusting your printer too much =) BananaSplit is of very experimental quality, it hasn't been battle-tested and independently reviewed yet. But at least it's there, it's FOSS, and I encourage you inspecting the code, contributing to it, or re-hosting the HTML.

k1t 7y ago

Although I haven't personally set this up, my plan has been to at some point: * Put important documents and passwords in an encrypted archive or true/veracrypt container. * Distribute the archive to relevant parties via physical media (e.g. USB stick), possibly put a public version online on somewhat reliable free hosting. * Store the password to the archive (without any indication as to the purpose of the password) on a service such as the one in the article or an alternative, e.g. Dead Man's Switch Because of the physical distribution of the archive, it makes it hard to change the secrets in the archive - but other than that it seems solid enough... [1] https://www.deadmansswitch.net/ https://www.deadmansswitch.net/

bronco21016 7y ago
Interesting idea. I suppose it’s relatively low risk that the secret would be stolen and then connected with the encrypted archive. Thanks!
deif 7y ago
I created https://www.deadmantracker.com https://www.deadmantracker.com and am implementing the reverse of this but your solution is a good alternative that I might support too. The way I saw it working was: * Encrypt docs into a compressed archive * Upload encrypted docs to service * Distribute password for unencryption using something not build into the service (tell them via Signal, or Protonmail, or a piece of paper, or word of mouth) * Link for encrypted archive only becomes available once the dead mans switch is triggered In the same way a password could be uploaded and only released when the switch is triggered. A service just can't hold both parts.

Kalium 7y ago

I feel like a bank's safe deposit box system coupled with an estate planning service is the traditional approach to this.

gatherhunterer 7y ago

I hope you’re kidding about the two safes thing. Either hire an attorney for this purpose or accept that your family will have little to no recourse for challenging claims from individuals, businesses and family members who claim rightful ownership of parts of your estate. You can buy all the safes you want but they won’t hold up in court. Even if you want your spouse to be your executor you need an attorney to receive your power of attorney immediately so that they can make him/her the executor. Without an attorney and notarized documents, if someone shows up with a piece of paper that says they get everything and it has your signature then their claim is just as valid as your spouse’s.

navigatesol 7y ago
>I hope you’re kidding about the two safes thing. Either hire an attorney for this purpose or accept that your family will have little to no recourse for challenging claims Silicon Valley: who needs accountants or lawyers? Also Silicon Valley: how many safes do I need to ensure my spouse can access my KeePass database?
bronco21016 7y ago
I think we’re discussing separate things. The idea behind the safes is to store instructions for accessing a password database so loved ones would have access to the various online accounts. Think utility bills, banking, email, etc. If the system for providing a third party (spouse, children, etc) access to online accounts is broken then surely you can see all the ways that ones life could be turned upside down. I’m well aware that I also need an attorney and necessary legal documents for establishing power of attorney and executor of the estate. Would an attorney be an appropriate person to share the information about unlocking my online life with? I know they’re bound by various ethical and legal frameworks but it still doesn’t stop people from doing crazy things.
- zifnab06 7y ago
  I like 1Passwords auth for this. There's a long key you need once (this stays in a lockbox), and a master password you need every sign in (safety deposit box with no information about what it is).

dharmab 7y ago

I store my information in a safe and happen to be extremely close friends with a few locksmiths.