5 ms·

Cool idea but your pricing structure seems high. You should consider a one-time lifetime fee, it aligns with your business model.

mrdazm 7y ago
Thank you for checking it out and for your feedback! An initial thought I had was to look at it as being akin to an insurance policy of sorts and that's what sort of led me down the recurring revenue path. Definitely will consider one-time fees for the future! Thanks again!
- jaysh 7y ago
  Those types of insurance polices payout on an event, so a monthly premium makes sense as nobody can afford to pay it upfront. I'd say your service is the internet version of someone creating their will, and leaving it with a friend or family member, which are all one-off costs.
  - mrdazm 7y ago
    Definitely. It'll be interesting for me to balance my recurring costs while matching with consumer ideals. To be continued...
giancarlostoro 7y ago
I would suggest a mix of both. The issue with lifetime fees is eventually someone will start to cost you money. I had a friend who sold some lifetime subscriptions to a VPN service, it's just not entirely feasible. On the other hand, this is what I use BitWarden for, so my wife has access to important accounts and vice-versa. BitWarden does provide free shared passwords for 2 users.
- jaysh 7y ago
  I don't think that's a fair comparison. VPN services have significant ongoing technical costs: bandwidth, servers, labour (upgrades, support, security, incident resolution) etc which you must pay monthly but are never recovered when charging a one-off price. If you're finding that the users you're sharing your passbox with are requesting your passwords every day, that's probably signal enough to remove them so they automatically use the service less. I'd expect the lifetime marginal cost of an additional user here to be a very small percentage of the revenue for that client.
  - mrdazm 7y ago
    > If you're finding that the users you're sharing your passbox with are requesting your passwords every day This is an interesting scenario I've thought about. Thanks for sharing! It could be the case that once the "death trigger" happens there's a countdown for the requesting user to download the data and then I (Passbox) locks everything down or deletes the original data or something. To be determined...
- fennecfoxen 7y ago
  Given cloud pricing structures and some basic actuarial tables, it shouldn't be too hard to put a reasonable limit on your resource costs. The real question is whether the cloud will last, or if you'll need to migrate everything off of AWS and onto something incompatible some time in the next 40 years.
- mrdazm 7y ago
  And with lifetime pricing I don't like the idea of just keeping that money if someone churns. Maybe I'm just not enough of a hardened business person haha. In your case with Bitwarden you're sharing access to your credentials and such with your wife right now, today, right? With Passbox I'm looking to defer that access for data that makes sense. In my case I'm currently single and no one else has access to my iPhone but if I passed then maybe my mom or best friend should have that - as a hypothetical.
  - jaysh 7y ago
    If you're sticking with recurring, you'll still need to keep the data for some time after the payments stop. The PR will be disastrous for you if someone passed away, and therefore the payments stop, and then all of their data is lost (worse: now imagine consequential financial loss from the loss of their data). I don't know whether you could be held liable for that or not.
    - mrdazm 7y ago
      Coincidentally just addressed that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21344759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21344759
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    That is correct, and yeah I see what you're saying. For example if both me and my wife were to pass away I don't know who would be able to access our things.
- excalibur 7y ago
  > On the other hand, this is what I use BitWarden for, so my wife has access to important accounts and vice-versa. BitWarden does provide free shared passwords for 2 users. I just set my wife's email as the recovery address for my Gmail, figuring she can reset most of the important stuff from there. But that's only a solution for "get into my accounts when I'm dead", not "share access to these things right now", and doesn't have the added benefit of a relatively secure password manager. And it ties you to Google, which may not be the wisest decision (but of course you could do something similar with a different service).
  - mrdazm 7y ago
    One potential benefit of something like a Passbox is that the important accounts would be ideally listed out vs having to guess what they are then reset the password via your gmail etc.
epanchin 7y ago
I would be nervous with the one time fee the developer would give up on maintenance before I kicked the bucket. A monthly fee seems reassuring.
- exhilaration 7y ago
  But what happens when your credit cards are cancelled after you die? That's a Catch-22 right there.
  - mrdazm 7y ago
    I've thought about this. Not a final decision per se (and I haven't coded anything for the scenario) but I imagine I'd maybe have the third party accessing the data pay (up to a cap) to reconcile the account to make it "current" before giving them access - something like that. It avoids folks signing up, canceling the card and then riding for free.
    - dageshi 7y ago
      My 2cents, ditch the monthly plan, price it yearly instead. Monthly plans are for things you will actually use day to day like netflix, yearly are more like "insurance" products which is what this is, I think displaying the yearly option will be a better value proposition for people looking at it. Second, I don't know what payment you're using, but seriously consider paypal if you're not already, because I'm pretty sure you can setup yearly recurring "subscriptions" on paypal and people are much more likely to keep their paypal funding sources up to date. So you're not going to have to nag them to update credit card info every couple years and they're less likely to have occasion to think "do I really want to pay for this", it'll just be pay automatically.
      - giancarlostoro 7y ago
        This also moves the point of cancellation to once a year and not monthly, or one month after.
      - 7y ago

mrdazm 7y ago

Thank you for checking it out and for your feedback! An initial thought I had was to look at it as being akin to an insurance policy of sorts and that's what sort of led me down the recurring revenue path. Definitely will consider one-time fees for the future! Thanks again!

jaysh 7y ago
Those types of insurance polices payout on an event, so a monthly premium makes sense as nobody can afford to pay it upfront. I'd say your service is the internet version of someone creating their will, and leaving it with a friend or family member, which are all one-off costs.
- mrdazm 7y ago
  Definitely. It'll be interesting for me to balance my recurring costs while matching with consumer ideals. To be continued...

giancarlostoro 7y ago

I would suggest a mix of both. The issue with lifetime fees is eventually someone will start to cost you money. I had a friend who sold some lifetime subscriptions to a VPN service, it's just not entirely feasible. On the other hand, this is what I use BitWarden for, so my wife has access to important accounts and vice-versa. BitWarden does provide free shared passwords for 2 users.

jaysh 7y ago
I don't think that's a fair comparison. VPN services have significant ongoing technical costs: bandwidth, servers, labour (upgrades, support, security, incident resolution) etc which you must pay monthly but are never recovered when charging a one-off price. If you're finding that the users you're sharing your passbox with are requesting your passwords every day, that's probably signal enough to remove them so they automatically use the service less. I'd expect the lifetime marginal cost of an additional user here to be a very small percentage of the revenue for that client.
- mrdazm 7y ago
  > If you're finding that the users you're sharing your passbox with are requesting your passwords every day This is an interesting scenario I've thought about. Thanks for sharing! It could be the case that once the "death trigger" happens there's a countdown for the requesting user to download the data and then I (Passbox) locks everything down or deletes the original data or something. To be determined...
fennecfoxen 7y ago
Given cloud pricing structures and some basic actuarial tables, it shouldn't be too hard to put a reasonable limit on your resource costs. The real question is whether the cloud will last, or if you'll need to migrate everything off of AWS and onto something incompatible some time in the next 40 years.
mrdazm 7y ago
And with lifetime pricing I don't like the idea of just keeping that money if someone churns. Maybe I'm just not enough of a hardened business person haha. In your case with Bitwarden you're sharing access to your credentials and such with your wife right now, today, right? With Passbox I'm looking to defer that access for data that makes sense. In my case I'm currently single and no one else has access to my iPhone but if I passed then maybe my mom or best friend should have that - as a hypothetical.
- jaysh 7y ago
  If you're sticking with recurring, you'll still need to keep the data for some time after the payments stop. The PR will be disastrous for you if someone passed away, and therefore the payments stop, and then all of their data is lost (worse: now imagine consequential financial loss from the loss of their data). I don't know whether you could be held liable for that or not.
  - mrdazm 7y ago
    Coincidentally just addressed that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21344759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21344759
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  That is correct, and yeah I see what you're saying. For example if both me and my wife were to pass away I don't know who would be able to access our things.
excalibur 7y ago
> On the other hand, this is what I use BitWarden for, so my wife has access to important accounts and vice-versa. BitWarden does provide free shared passwords for 2 users. I just set my wife's email as the recovery address for my Gmail, figuring she can reset most of the important stuff from there. But that's only a solution for "get into my accounts when I'm dead", not "share access to these things right now", and doesn't have the added benefit of a relatively secure password manager. And it ties you to Google, which may not be the wisest decision (but of course you could do something similar with a different service).
- mrdazm 7y ago
  One potential benefit of something like a Passbox is that the important accounts would be ideally listed out vs having to guess what they are then reset the password via your gmail etc.

epanchin 7y ago

I would be nervous with the one time fee the developer would give up on maintenance before I kicked the bucket. A monthly fee seems reassuring.

exhilaration 7y ago
But what happens when your credit cards are cancelled after you die? That's a Catch-22 right there.
- mrdazm 7y ago
  I've thought about this. Not a final decision per se (and I haven't coded anything for the scenario) but I imagine I'd maybe have the third party accessing the data pay (up to a cap) to reconcile the account to make it "current" before giving them access - something like that. It avoids folks signing up, canceling the card and then riding for free.
  - dageshi 7y ago
    My 2cents, ditch the monthly plan, price it yearly instead. Monthly plans are for things you will actually use day to day like netflix, yearly are more like "insurance" products which is what this is, I think displaying the yearly option will be a better value proposition for people looking at it. Second, I don't know what payment you're using, but seriously consider paypal if you're not already, because I'm pretty sure you can setup yearly recurring "subscriptions" on paypal and people are much more likely to keep their paypal funding sources up to date. So you're not going to have to nag them to update credit card info every couple years and they're less likely to have occasion to think "do I really want to pay for this", it'll just be pay automatically.
    - giancarlostoro 7y ago
      This also moves the point of cancellation to once a year and not monthly, or one month after.
    - 7y ago