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Parent was being rude by chastising OP with their stark, baseless claim. > I just looked at the newest article in your list Why don't you check out the dozens

Parent was being rude by chastising OP with their stark, baseless claim. > I just looked at the newest article in your list Why don't you check out the dozens of studies below instead of committing selection bias?

behringer 7y ago
Yes because a selection of studies by a for-profit company are not biased. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_blue_light_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_blue_light_technolo...
- apatters 7y ago
  This is very interesting. I think a lot of us have come to believe the claim that blue light exposure keeps you awake. So what do we know? That excessive exposure to any kind of light at night keeps you awake? It looks like there are several studies on the f.lux page discussing blue light specifically, but fair point that they could be cherry-picking just the studies that support their product.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    I have been using f.lux for a decade, since the first version, and it has been a huge benefit to me. So far all native OS implementations simply don't compare. f.lux is doing more than just filtering blue light from the color buffer. They may take donations, but when the project started it was a far cry from the company that exists today and it began with research, as opposed to cherry-picking research after the fact as OP is sort of insinuating. f.lux and Twilight for Android (inferior but best in class) massively contributed to the reduction of my late night migraines and insomnia. Try an experiment: code for a few hours late at night with f.lux set to match the white temperature in your room. You can do this by holding up a piece of printing paper next to your screen and matching the color. After a few hours, change f.lux to the default temperature. Take it as bright as it goes. Then put it back at a temperature which feels comfortable and natural to you. If this is the default color temperature, let me know.
    - behringer 7y ago
      Nobody's saying the affects aren't real or that there aren't benefits. Just that the conclusions are still out on the subject. BTW, I can program on my computer with super bright neutral LEDS (my preference) lighting up the room and my monitor set to 90 percent neutral lighting, right until bed time and be asleep in 10 mins. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal.
      - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
        Did you also measure the quality of your sleep, circadian timing, and next morning alertness as well? You're missing out on a lot of the relevant metrics. Edit: See the studies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346344
        behringer 7y ago
        Did you? Has anybody to any degree of scientific certainty? I think once you review the studies, you will find the answer to be no.
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        Some of us are less sensitive to it than others. In particular I am prone to migraines in bright conditions, and on a bright summer day I have difficulty looking at the sky, which will be coated in thousands of bright and distracting microscopic floaters * * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_field_entoptic_phenomenon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_field_entoptic_phenomenon And yes, I'm offering anecdotal data-- but I've already provided the relevant studies so this is just a bonus. In my case, the slightest thing will keep me from sleeping. My A/C was out last night and I got scarcely and hour of sleep because of the heat. I am manic depressive and sometimes I will stay up for days if I don't make extra effort to fall asleep. f.lux particularly made a very noticeable difference to me within days of adopting it.
  - authoritarian 7y ago
    If you search for articles and studies on blue light and sleep the overwhelming majority (that I was able to find) say that there is an effect. I posted a number of sources in another comment
bildung 7y ago
Ok I gave in and looked at another two: "Exposure to Room Light before Bedtime Suppresses Melatonin Onset and Shortens Melatonin Duration in Humans": * nothing about blue light * didn't measure actual effects, just melatonin levels. "The human circadian system adapts to prior photic history": * nothing about blue light * didn't measure actual effects, just melatonin levels. So zero out of three studies in your link I looked at support the claims. As you posted these studies: Can you point me to a single study from that list that supports your claims?
- secabeen 7y ago
  Interesting. These studies seem to be looking at physical or chemical data. Is it possible that the patterns that people see with evening light are largely mental? Until recently, most artificial light sources used in the home were in the range of 2000K. That could have developed in most people a connection between those color temperatures and sleepyness; one that would not necessarily show up in quantifiable measures like melatonin levels. Of course, that would need to be studied, and would be a more challenging study, but I think you could probably do it.

behringer 7y ago

Yes because a selection of studies by a for-profit company are not biased. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_blue_light_technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_blue_light_technolo...

apatters 7y ago
This is very interesting. I think a lot of us have come to believe the claim that blue light exposure keeps you awake. So what do we know? That excessive exposure to any kind of light at night keeps you awake? It looks like there are several studies on the f.lux page discussing blue light specifically, but fair point that they could be cherry-picking just the studies that support their product.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  I have been using f.lux for a decade, since the first version, and it has been a huge benefit to me. So far all native OS implementations simply don't compare. f.lux is doing more than just filtering blue light from the color buffer. They may take donations, but when the project started it was a far cry from the company that exists today and it began with research, as opposed to cherry-picking research after the fact as OP is sort of insinuating. f.lux and Twilight for Android (inferior but best in class) massively contributed to the reduction of my late night migraines and insomnia. Try an experiment: code for a few hours late at night with f.lux set to match the white temperature in your room. You can do this by holding up a piece of printing paper next to your screen and matching the color. After a few hours, change f.lux to the default temperature. Take it as bright as it goes. Then put it back at a temperature which feels comfortable and natural to you. If this is the default color temperature, let me know.
  - behringer 7y ago
    Nobody's saying the affects aren't real or that there aren't benefits. Just that the conclusions are still out on the subject. BTW, I can program on my computer with super bright neutral LEDS (my preference) lighting up the room and my monitor set to 90 percent neutral lighting, right until bed time and be asleep in 10 mins. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal.
    - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
      Did you also measure the quality of your sleep, circadian timing, and next morning alertness as well? You're missing out on a lot of the relevant metrics. Edit: See the studies - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21346344
      - behringer 7y ago
        Did you? Has anybody to any degree of scientific certainty? I think once you review the studies, you will find the answer to be no.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      Some of us are less sensitive to it than others. In particular I am prone to migraines in bright conditions, and on a bright summer day I have difficulty looking at the sky, which will be coated in thousands of bright and distracting microscopic floaters * * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_field_entoptic_phenomenon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_field_entoptic_phenomenon And yes, I'm offering anecdotal data-- but I've already provided the relevant studies so this is just a bonus. In my case, the slightest thing will keep me from sleeping. My A/C was out last night and I got scarcely and hour of sleep because of the heat. I am manic depressive and sometimes I will stay up for days if I don't make extra effort to fall asleep. f.lux particularly made a very noticeable difference to me within days of adopting it.
- authoritarian 7y ago
  If you search for articles and studies on blue light and sleep the overwhelming majority (that I was able to find) say that there is an effect. I posted a number of sources in another comment

bildung 7y ago

Ok I gave in and looked at another two: "Exposure to Room Light before Bedtime Suppresses Melatonin Onset and Shortens Melatonin Duration in Humans": * nothing about blue light * didn't measure actual effects, just melatonin levels. "The human circadian system adapts to prior photic history": * nothing about blue light * didn't measure actual effects, just melatonin levels. So zero out of three studies in your link I looked at support the claims. As you posted these studies: Can you point me to a single study from that list that supports your claims?

secabeen 7y ago
Interesting. These studies seem to be looking at physical or chemical data. Is it possible that the patterns that people see with evening light are largely mental? Until recently, most artificial light sources used in the home were in the range of 2000K. That could have developed in most people a connection between those color temperatures and sleepyness; one that would not necessarily show up in quantifiable measures like melatonin levels. Of course, that would need to be studied, and would be a more challenging study, but I think you could probably do it.