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Most people understand Tor to be the 'dark web', so I wouldn't call it clickbait. Hell, it is the dark web. It's you who's wrongly associating it with paedophi

by toby- 7y ago

Most people understand Tor to be the 'dark web', so I wouldn't call it clickbait. Hell, it is the dark web. It's you who's wrongly associating it with paedophilia and drugs (both amply available on the 'clearnet') IMO, which does quite a disservice to attempts to promote Tor to the newly privacy-conscious. 'Dark' means hidden, not 'evil'.

eeZah7Ux 7y ago
You can nitpick all you want but both the "dark" and "hidden" words sound sinister to a lot of people.
_Understated_ 7y ago
Straight away in the article they spell it out and make the link between Tor and the dark web: > The Tor browser is privacy-focused software used to access the dark web Yes it is. But that's the worst thing it's used for. It's like saying 12-gauge shotguns are used for bank robberies... Ok, I'm stretching the point but it's needlessly putting the association of privacy focused browsing using Tor with the nasty shit that some people do with it. Edit: I realise my understanding of The Dark Web was incorrect so this argument is invalidated now but I'll leave it up.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > Yes it is. But that's the worst thing it's used for. The "dark" in dark web doesn't mean "bad", it's darkness to prying eyes. If you buy drugs on the dark web, it's the dark web. If you read literature on the dark web that your government doesn't want you to read, it's the dark web as well. The negative connotations you're associating with it are what this step by the BBC will help reduce: pointing out that the criminal use isn't the primary use of the dark web. Privacy is.
  - _Understated_ 7y ago
    My bad. I always assumed it meant bad stuff. On that note, I bet if you asked non-techs what they think "dark web" means they'd think nasty stuff.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      Sure, the public's exposure to the term so far has pretty much only been in connection to nasty stuff. That will change when more normal stuff is available on the dark web and the privacy aspect gets more pronounced (privacy being a major topic these days). And "we're providing access to the free internet to everyone living in countries with authoritarian regimes that try to restrict information and oppress their citizens" is a powerful narrative. They'll be less likely to consider it evil if it's compared to the BBC German Service during WW2, broadcasting to Germany in German, unrestricted by the Nazi government.
- mrighele 7y ago
  I always though that "dark web" is not about the kind of things you can find there, but the fact that is not "in the open internet". Wikipedia seems to think the same way [1]: "The dark web is the World Wide Web content that exists on darknets, overlay networks that use the Internet but require specific software, configurations, or authorization to access." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web
- toby- 7y ago
  But you're using 'dark web' as if it necessarily implies "the worst thing[s]" and "the nasty shit" on Tor. The term 'dark web' doesn't refer to anything nefarious in itself — it simply means content accessible only via Tor (or some other software or network). Sure, many so-called Hidden Services offer illegal and immoral content, but the dark web is enormous. There are many more such sites offering ebooks and other (legal) media, anonymous blogging/forums/social media, whistleblowing services, censorship-resilient news platforms (BBC, NYT, The Intercept, ProPublica), cryptocurrency trading, and so on. Hell, even the CIA has a 'dark web' presence on Tor [1]. [1]: http://ciadotgov4sjwlzihbbgxnqg3xiyrg7so2r2o3lt5wz5ypk4sxyjstad.onion/ http://ciadotgov4sjwlzihbbgxnqg3xiyrg7so2r2o3lt5wz5ypk4sxyjs...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - cyphar 7y ago
    It's also the case that onion services make up less than 3% of Tor traffic -- the perception that they are a very common thing people use on Tor is massively distorted by thinly-veiled smears by plenty of media outlets. The most-used onion service on Tor is (by a landslide) Facebook.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  Umm... the Tor network is the dark web. Like OP said, you're conflating these two topics.
- rahoulb 7y ago
  One of my teenage daughter's friends saw a Tor icon on my laptop and asked if I was looking for drugs, child porn or wanted someone murdering. I would say to most people, if they have heard of the "dark web" then they think it exists exclusively for "the nasty shit".
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  >It's like saying 12-gauge shotguns are used for bank robberies... I think I've seen the exact BBC article ;)
rimliu 7y ago
Just like "dark side of the Moon" does ot mean "unlit" (it gets the same amount of the sun as any other side), but that signals from that side don't reach Earth.

by toby- 7y ago

eeZah7Ux 7y ago

You can nitpick all you want but both the "dark" and "hidden" words sound sinister to a lot of people.

_Understated_ 7y ago

Straight away in the article they spell it out and make the link between Tor and the dark web: > The Tor browser is privacy-focused software used to access the dark web Yes it is. But that's the worst thing it's used for. It's like saying 12-gauge shotguns are used for bank robberies... Ok, I'm stretching the point but it's needlessly putting the association of privacy focused browsing using Tor with the nasty shit that some people do with it. Edit: I realise my understanding of The Dark Web was incorrect so this argument is invalidated now but I'll leave it up.

luckylion 7y ago
> Yes it is. But that's the worst thing it's used for. The "dark" in dark web doesn't mean "bad", it's darkness to prying eyes. If you buy drugs on the dark web, it's the dark web. If you read literature on the dark web that your government doesn't want you to read, it's the dark web as well. The negative connotations you're associating with it are what this step by the BBC will help reduce: pointing out that the criminal use isn't the primary use of the dark web. Privacy is.
- _Understated_ 7y ago
  My bad. I always assumed it meant bad stuff. On that note, I bet if you asked non-techs what they think "dark web" means they'd think nasty stuff.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    Sure, the public's exposure to the term so far has pretty much only been in connection to nasty stuff. That will change when more normal stuff is available on the dark web and the privacy aspect gets more pronounced (privacy being a major topic these days). And "we're providing access to the free internet to everyone living in countries with authoritarian regimes that try to restrict information and oppress their citizens" is a powerful narrative. They'll be less likely to consider it evil if it's compared to the BBC German Service during WW2, broadcasting to Germany in German, unrestricted by the Nazi government.
mrighele 7y ago
I always though that "dark web" is not about the kind of things you can find there, but the fact that is not "in the open internet". Wikipedia seems to think the same way [1]: "The dark web is the World Wide Web content that exists on darknets, overlay networks that use the Internet but require specific software, configurations, or authorization to access." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_web
toby- 7y ago
But you're using 'dark web' as if it necessarily implies "the worst thing[s]" and "the nasty shit" on Tor. The term 'dark web' doesn't refer to anything nefarious in itself — it simply means content accessible only via Tor (or some other software or network). Sure, many so-called Hidden Services offer illegal and immoral content, but the dark web is enormous. There are many more such sites offering ebooks and other (legal) media, anonymous blogging/forums/social media, whistleblowing services, censorship-resilient news platforms (BBC, NYT, The Intercept, ProPublica), cryptocurrency trading, and so on. Hell, even the CIA has a 'dark web' presence on Tor [1]. [1]: http://ciadotgov4sjwlzihbbgxnqg3xiyrg7so2r2o3lt5wz5ypk4sxyjstad.onion/ http://ciadotgov4sjwlzihbbgxnqg3xiyrg7so2r2o3lt5wz5ypk4sxyjs...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cyphar 7y ago
  It's also the case that onion services make up less than 3% of Tor traffic -- the perception that they are a very common thing people use on Tor is massively distorted by thinly-veiled smears by plenty of media outlets. The most-used onion service on Tor is (by a landslide) Facebook.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
soulofmischief 7y ago
Umm... the Tor network is the dark web. Like OP said, you're conflating these two topics.
rahoulb 7y ago
One of my teenage daughter's friends saw a Tor icon on my laptop and asked if I was looking for drugs, child porn or wanted someone murdering. I would say to most people, if they have heard of the "dark web" then they think it exists exclusively for "the nasty shit".
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
>It's like saying 12-gauge shotguns are used for bank robberies... I think I've seen the exact BBC article ;)

rimliu 7y ago

Just like "dark side of the Moon" does ot mean "unlit" (it gets the same amount of the sun as any other side), but that signals from that side don't reach Earth.