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> SF is just trying to tie jobs to adequate housing construction And also making the assumption that only people who work in San Fransisco will live in San Fra

> SF is just trying to tie jobs to adequate housing construction And also making the assumption that only people who work in San Fransisco will live in San Fransisco? Because those Stripe employees who live in SF right now are likely not going to change their apartments. They'll continue living where they are, except now SF now longer benefits from the taxes that Stripe would otherwise have paid.

abalone 7y ago
That's exactly why this tax dodge is such a low integrity move for Stripe. All their SF employees will remain in SF, but Stripe won't pay the corporate taxes to offset their impact on the housing market, transit infrastructure, etc.
- sharpneli 7y ago
  Doesn’t SF have some kind of municipal tax that the employees pay? I work in a different city where I live. But pay ~20% municipal tax (not US) that pays for infra etc that I use.
  - refurb 7y ago
    The employees who continue living in SF would continue to pay property taxes (through rent or directly) and sales taxes.
    - sharpneli 7y ago
      Yeah. So they would pay for their impact, assuming the amount is enough. Here municipal tax income is ridiculously higher than the corporate tax for municipalities. But the reason is that a corporation does not require healthcare, the person who lives in a municipality does and receives it from their own municipality etc.
kevingadd 7y ago
What alternative solution actually fixes this, though? All you can really do is build more housing (to fix housing undersupply caused by the excess office space) and limit growth of office space (to prevent the imbalance from getting worse). The fact that companies can open up offices somewhere else shouldn't be very surprising, and it shouldn't be shocking that people will choose to live where they already live unless their commute gets too long and they can afford to move. I just don't see what you expect SF leadership to do about this that doesn't fit into the two categories I mentioned, other than give up.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > What alternative solution actually fixes this, though? Lower the cost of building housing. Streamline permits, zoning, and environmental review. Publicly commit, in other words, to driving down housing prices over a decade. (Note: not land prices! That’s the compromise.) This makes it cheaper to... Build enough shelters for the transient homeless population. Now that they’re a stable problem, we can focus on the gritty bits. Fund mental-health intervention for the permanently homeless so afflicted. And there has to be an element of coercion. Leaving the mentally ill to waste on the street isn’t compassion, it’s dereliction. Fund drug-addiction intervention for the permanently homeless so afflicted. Carrot is clean places to use, seek counselling and get preventative medical care. Stick has to be arresting (and preferably transferring to clinics, not prisons) public users of hard, illicit drugs. With the above in place, encampments can be humanely cleared and/or relocated. It also lets law enforcement tackle the minority of the homeless who are threatening, violent or thieving, a minority that creates most of the problems for other San Franciscans. (Oh, and regional transit co-operation. If you make it easier for people to get around the Bay Area, they don’t have to stack up on each other. Why is the Caltrain a single trunk? Where is the network of every-fifteen-minutes ferries? Why is the BART so loud and expensive?)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - all_factz 7y ago
    I’ve lived in the SF Bay Area pretty much my whole life and I just want to say you hit the nail on the head. Do you know of any politicians who are working to make this happen? I’m pretty liberal, but I sometimes feel we live in such a bubble here that even ideas like these are a third rail...

abalone 7y ago

That's exactly why this tax dodge is such a low integrity move for Stripe. All their SF employees will remain in SF, but Stripe won't pay the corporate taxes to offset their impact on the housing market, transit infrastructure, etc.

sharpneli 7y ago
Doesn’t SF have some kind of municipal tax that the employees pay? I work in a different city where I live. But pay ~20% municipal tax (not US) that pays for infra etc that I use.
- refurb 7y ago
  The employees who continue living in SF would continue to pay property taxes (through rent or directly) and sales taxes.
  - sharpneli 7y ago
    Yeah. So they would pay for their impact, assuming the amount is enough. Here municipal tax income is ridiculously higher than the corporate tax for municipalities. But the reason is that a corporation does not require healthcare, the person who lives in a municipality does and receives it from their own municipality etc.

kevingadd 7y ago

What alternative solution actually fixes this, though? All you can really do is build more housing (to fix housing undersupply caused by the excess office space) and limit growth of office space (to prevent the imbalance from getting worse). The fact that companies can open up offices somewhere else shouldn't be very surprising, and it shouldn't be shocking that people will choose to live where they already live unless their commute gets too long and they can afford to move. I just don't see what you expect SF leadership to do about this that doesn't fit into the two categories I mentioned, other than give up.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> What alternative solution actually fixes this, though? Lower the cost of building housing. Streamline permits, zoning, and environmental review. Publicly commit, in other words, to driving down housing prices over a decade. (Note: not land prices! That’s the compromise.) This makes it cheaper to... Build enough shelters for the transient homeless population. Now that they’re a stable problem, we can focus on the gritty bits. Fund mental-health intervention for the permanently homeless so afflicted. And there has to be an element of coercion. Leaving the mentally ill to waste on the street isn’t compassion, it’s dereliction. Fund drug-addiction intervention for the permanently homeless so afflicted. Carrot is clean places to use, seek counselling and get preventative medical care. Stick has to be arresting (and preferably transferring to clinics, not prisons) public users of hard, illicit drugs. With the above in place, encampments can be humanely cleared and/or relocated. It also lets law enforcement tackle the minority of the homeless who are threatening, violent or thieving, a minority that creates most of the problems for other San Franciscans. (Oh, and regional transit co-operation. If you make it easier for people to get around the Bay Area, they don’t have to stack up on each other. Why is the Caltrain a single trunk? Where is the network of every-fifteen-minutes ferries? Why is the BART so loud and expensive?)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- all_factz 7y ago
  I’ve lived in the SF Bay Area pretty much my whole life and I just want to say you hit the nail on the head. Do you know of any politicians who are working to make this happen? I’m pretty liberal, but I sometimes feel we live in such a bubble here that even ideas like these are a third rail...