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We made this blog post before implementing the changes so we could gather feedback. The feedback is very negative. And some of the things we thought would help

by sytse 7y ago

We made this blog post before implementing the changes so we could gather feedback. The feedback is very negative. And some of the things we thought would help (respecting DNT) don't seems to matter much. We'll have a look at all the feedback and see what we can learn and adjust.

stunt 7y ago
> We made this blog post before implementing the changes so we could gather feedback Blog post isn’t the best way to collect feedback. Just ask your customers directly. 10 bad title on internet is enough to screw your reputation on 10m developers that probably don’t even follow up the story or even don’t bother to read anything beyond Reddit titles and comments. But then you have 10m developers telling their managers “Oh Gitlab isn’t good”.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Totally. I got a link to this post sent to me today by a co-worker, and already in my mind I've blacklisted using Gitlab in an enterprise environment. It's only now that I found this thread on HN that I learned this isn't set in stone yet. But most people don't read HN.
  - sytse 7y ago
    I agree that the tone of the blog post was more like an announcement than a proposal.
smartbit 7y ago
Please do revert, Sytse. Look at how governments are fighting Microsoft's urge to track users [0] [1] We're in the process of taking a 50user Premium (aka self-hosted) GitLab subscription, don't make us reconsider and search alternative means. [0] https://edps.europa.eu/press-publications/press-news/press-releases/2019/edps-investigation-it-contracts-stronger_en https://edps.europa.eu/press-publications/press-news/press-r... [1] https://tweakers.net/nieuws/158892/ https://tweakers.net/nieuws/158892/
- sytse 7y ago
  We're updating the blog post with https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33278/diffs https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...
  - simpss 7y ago
    as long as the ToS doesn't reflect a change of heart, this does nothing. In enterprise environments, we can't base anything on blog posts, it's the ToS that matters. ps: SOC2 does not inspire confidence as the whole of EAA needs to follow GDPR.
    - sytse 7y ago
      Thanks, we're pumping the breaks on this change completely, see https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33289/diffs https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...
      - jahlove 7y ago
        > GitLab's proprietary Self-Managed packages (Starter, Premium, and Ultimate) are unchanged for now. We do plan to enable product usage tracking for those packages, but will absolutely allow administrators of self-hosted instances to have easy control over whether tracking is enabled. We will communicate clearly in advance of any planned changes, and will clearly document how to control tracking in each customer environment. This doesn't seem like you're pumping the breaks "completely". It's baffling to me that you would try to run telemetry on self-hosted PAYING customers. Seems totally backwards.
        simpss 7y ago
        A while later, they did pump the breaks completely by reversing the ToS changes. This means they would have to change the ToS before trying to implement it again, which means the current result isn't moving the goalposts at all and is not a step forwards to the original solution. See: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33302 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/... and https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33308 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...
ahbyb 7y ago
>The feedback is very negative. I don't know what did you expect?
finnthehuman 7y ago
Why should I believe you care? I notice that you and your employees are here acting superficially nice to do damage control, but that's about it. Of course the feedback is negative. You obviously knew it would be because you made that blog post in the first place. Three months from now you'll have made some cosmetic changes while still collecting basically all the data you wanted. Eventually you'll be ramping up to roll this into your enterprise offering. I'll do another round of source control tool research and hopefully be able to move gitlab to the NRND list in internal documentation. That's how it will go, because that's how these things always play out. The world will keep spinning.
- finnthehuman 7y ago
  Too late to edit my post, but gitlab is planning to go public next year and had I know I wouldn't have posted the slight prodding I did. If this how they're gearing up we can calibrate our expectations of that company's future accordingly.
vasili111 7y ago
You serious? Telemetry for Gitlab? I see only one option: remove all telemetry and make a blogpost about why that idea was bad that you will not implement it. And even doing so harm is already done. Now you can minimize harm by making such post as fast as possible.
dkersten 7y ago
The ONLY reason I started using Gitlab is to get away from shit like this, because Gitlab always advertised itself as a more consumer friendly option, both self hosted and hosted by you. Guess I was wrong to trust you and now I have to migrate away. Hassle I really didn't need.

by sytse 7y ago

stunt 7y ago

> We made this blog post before implementing the changes so we could gather feedback Blog post isn’t the best way to collect feedback. Just ask your customers directly. 10 bad title on internet is enough to screw your reputation on 10m developers that probably don’t even follow up the story or even don’t bother to read anything beyond Reddit titles and comments. But then you have 10m developers telling their managers “Oh Gitlab isn’t good”.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
Totally. I got a link to this post sent to me today by a co-worker, and already in my mind I've blacklisted using Gitlab in an enterprise environment. It's only now that I found this thread on HN that I learned this isn't set in stone yet. But most people don't read HN.
- sytse 7y ago
  I agree that the tone of the blog post was more like an announcement than a proposal.

smartbit 7y ago

Please do revert, Sytse. Look at how governments are fighting Microsoft's urge to track users [0] [1] We're in the process of taking a 50user Premium (aka self-hosted) GitLab subscription, don't make us reconsider and search alternative means. [0] https://edps.europa.eu/press-publications/press-news/press-releases/2019/edps-investigation-it-contracts-stronger_en https://edps.europa.eu/press-publications/press-news/press-r... [1] https://tweakers.net/nieuws/158892/ https://tweakers.net/nieuws/158892/

sytse 7y ago
We're updating the blog post with https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33278/diffs https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...
- simpss 7y ago
  as long as the ToS doesn't reflect a change of heart, this does nothing. In enterprise environments, we can't base anything on blog posts, it's the ToS that matters. ps: SOC2 does not inspire confidence as the whole of EAA needs to follow GDPR.
  - sytse 7y ago
    Thanks, we're pumping the breaks on this change completely, see https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33289/diffs https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...
    - jahlove 7y ago
      > GitLab's proprietary Self-Managed packages (Starter, Premium, and Ultimate) are unchanged for now. We do plan to enable product usage tracking for those packages, but will absolutely allow administrators of self-hosted instances to have easy control over whether tracking is enabled. We will communicate clearly in advance of any planned changes, and will clearly document how to control tracking in each customer environment. This doesn't seem like you're pumping the breaks "completely". It's baffling to me that you would try to run telemetry on self-hosted PAYING customers. Seems totally backwards.
      - simpss 7y ago
        A while later, they did pump the breaks completely by reversing the ToS changes. This means they would have to change the ToS before trying to implement it again, which means the current result isn't moving the goalposts at all and is not a step forwards to the original solution. See: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33302 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/... and https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/33308 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-com/www-gitlab-com/merge_requests/...

ahbyb 7y ago

>The feedback is very negative. I don't know what did you expect?

finnthehuman 7y ago

Why should I believe you care? I notice that you and your employees are here acting superficially nice to do damage control, but that's about it. Of course the feedback is negative. You obviously knew it would be because you made that blog post in the first place. Three months from now you'll have made some cosmetic changes while still collecting basically all the data you wanted. Eventually you'll be ramping up to roll this into your enterprise offering. I'll do another round of source control tool research and hopefully be able to move gitlab to the NRND list in internal documentation. That's how it will go, because that's how these things always play out. The world will keep spinning.

finnthehuman 7y ago
Too late to edit my post, but gitlab is planning to go public next year and had I know I wouldn't have posted the slight prodding I did. If this how they're gearing up we can calibrate our expectations of that company's future accordingly.

vasili111 7y ago

You serious? Telemetry for Gitlab? I see only one option: remove all telemetry and make a blogpost about why that idea was bad that you will not implement it. And even doing so harm is already done. Now you can minimize harm by making such post as fast as possible.

dkersten 7y ago

The ONLY reason I started using Gitlab is to get away from shit like this, because Gitlab always advertised itself as a more consumer friendly option, both self hosted and hosted by you. Guess I was wrong to trust you and now I have to migrate away. Hassle I really didn't need.