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I work at GitLab. Support Engineering Managers were briefed about this a few days ago. From inside GitLab Slack: 5d Scott Williamson We are not adding Pendo

by lbotos 7y ago

I work at GitLab. Support Engineering Managers were briefed about this a few days ago. From inside GitLab Slack: 5d Scott Williamson We are not adding Pendo or Snowplow JS snippets to self hosted versions yet. That will likely come in a second phase of the project, and we will figure out opt in/opt out for those scenarios before launching. The reason we are communicating to those customers about it now is so we don't have to do the privacy policy change twice. So for now it's just .com customers. I will let @Tim Hey respond on where he would like discussion on this to go. 5d Support Engineer Thank you @Scott Williamson, I was hesitant to ping you as I know your time is valuable, but I'm glad that I did. :thank_you::thx::thankyou: 5d Tim Hey Hi @Support Engineer Looks like @Scott Williamson just beat me to the it. :sweat_smile: 5d Support Engineer You both are amazing and I can't thank you enough. 5d Tim Hey Also if you are interested in the being part of the discussion when we build out the opt in for scenarios like this I'd love to include you. I believe Lee was interested. 5d Support Engineer I'd love to be involved! If there's an opt-in or opt-out, it invalidates all the concerns I voiced here. Knowing this, I fully support the decision to add telemetry to self-managed and understand that it would be incredibly valuable for growth. 41m Support Engineer @Scott Williamson @Tim Hey @supportmanagers We have a lot of upset customers thinking that GitLab self-managed telemetry will be mandatory for Self-Managed GitLab moving forward (no opt-out/opt-in) . We need an official response and Zendesk template to help manage the influx

OnlineGladiator 7y ago
I am not sure it is a good idea to post internal slack conversations to a thread like this on HN.
- lbotos 7y ago
  I asked Scott, VP of Product, if he was okay with it. He was. In earnest, it should have been on an issue, so I could have linked to it directly.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
marcinzm 7y ago
The fact that Gitlab didn't include information about enterprise having opt-out ASAP shows how out of touch Gitlab is with (or how little they care about) enterprise customers. Or does Gitlab just not have enough Enterprise customers to care about?
DevoAKA 7y ago
> We have a lot of upset customers thinking that GitLab self-managed telemetry will be mandatory for Self-Managed GitLab moving forward It may not be mandatory now but, by agreeing to the new Terms of Service, it can be mandatory at any time in the future without being notified/needing to agree to the change (since it's already in the ToS). This Slack conversation is just as short-sighted as the blog post. I'm surprised the proposal to allow third-party scripts (something GitLab doesn't control!) to run on customer's closed environments made it out of a 30-minute meeting.
- apple4ever 7y ago
  > I'm surprised the proposal to allow third-party scripts (something GitLab doesn't control!) to run on customer's closed environments made it out of a 30-minute meeting. I've always been curious how this happens. How can a group of people who should know better just ignore or not realize the backlash that will come. There was not a single person who raised a red flag?
shakna 7y ago
> That will likely come in a second phase of the project, and we will figure out opt in/opt out for those scenarios before launching. You might want to pass on that the current opt in/out scenario won't work everywhere either. Safari 12.1 removed the DNT header[0] because it was only being used for fingerprinting. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_notes/safari_12_1_release_notes https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_not...
- cc-d 7y ago
  >Safari 12.1 removed the DNT header[0] because it was only being used for fingerprinting. In retrospect, it's hard to imagine this working out any other way.
yellowapple 7y ago
> 5d Scott Williamson We are not adding Pendo or Snowplow JS snippets to self hosted versions yet. That will likely come in a second phase of the project Can it come in an ∞th phase instead?
request136340 7y ago
> I work at GitLab. HN is a good opportunity to reach out, so I will use it: there's some kind of dark pattern employed during this Terms-Of-Service switch. GitLab does not allow to login without accepting the new TOS, which means that I cannot remove my account without accepting the new TOS. I didn't use gitlab that much anyway, but the TOS change just reminded me about the need to close the account... yet "you must accept the TOS to login" does not allow to remove the account. So, accepting the new TOS is kind of forced upon if you want to find your way out (in other words, it's made inconvenient and we-will-drag-our-feet otherwise). Can someone take a look into it? I received two template-responses from email support, but no action. My support request is 136340.
- NullPrefix 7y ago
  Just send a GDPR data delete request. Let the lawyers deal with it.
  - request136340 7y ago
    Since GDPR topic was brought up, let me give some more details; GitLab seem to be well aware of GDPR. This was initial response from GitLab to my request (let's call it Template1): > We understand that you want to completely remove your GitLab.com account. > Due to the complexity of servicing these requests, we're asking our users to > please email gdpr-request at gitlab.com. > Please ensure that you: > - send the email from the address associated with your GitLab.com account > - include the GitLab username you'd like removed I did send an email to that address repeating my request, but shortly after I received this response (let's call it Template2): > We have additional updates with regards to our TOS and Telemetry services > below: > We understand that the recent announcement regarding the update to our Terms of > Service, specifically in regards to Telemetry, can lead to questions you have > about how it impacts your usage of GitLab. > To answer those questions and gather feedback on this recent update, we have > created this Issue with additional clarification. As we firmly believe that > everyone can contribute, we want to assure you all feedback you provide via the > Issue is both welcome and appreciated. > Kindly advise if you would still want us to proceed with this request. I repeated my request, reaffirming that I want to remove and erase my account. In response, they sent "Template1" email again. Edit: to be fair, it's been less than 24 hours since the request, and the repeated template-response from GitLab may have been a hiccup on the support side. But the whole new TOS switch could be handled much better and without dark patterns, i.e. during login, two buttons: [Accept new TOS] [Decline and erase account] However, right now there's simply no option to handle account removal conveniently when I want to decline the new TOS.
ArchReaper 7y ago
Curious to know what planet you guys live on that you think you could put non-opt-in 3rd party telemetry on enterprise-level software and not get this kind of feedback.
jahlove 7y ago
https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/commit/bd6e6180e61916ed11ac3ae3d8c33aaea8d8e236 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/commit/bd6e6180e61916ed...

by lbotos 7y ago

OnlineGladiator 7y ago

I am not sure it is a good idea to post internal slack conversations to a thread like this on HN.

lbotos 7y ago
I asked Scott, VP of Product, if he was okay with it. He was. In earnest, it should have been on an issue, so I could have linked to it directly.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

marcinzm 7y ago

The fact that Gitlab didn't include information about enterprise having opt-out ASAP shows how out of touch Gitlab is with (or how little they care about) enterprise customers. Or does Gitlab just not have enough Enterprise customers to care about?

DevoAKA 7y ago

> We have a lot of upset customers thinking that GitLab self-managed telemetry will be mandatory for Self-Managed GitLab moving forward It may not be mandatory now but, by agreeing to the new Terms of Service, it can be mandatory at any time in the future without being notified/needing to agree to the change (since it's already in the ToS). This Slack conversation is just as short-sighted as the blog post. I'm surprised the proposal to allow third-party scripts (something GitLab doesn't control!) to run on customer's closed environments made it out of a 30-minute meeting.

apple4ever 7y ago
> I'm surprised the proposal to allow third-party scripts (something GitLab doesn't control!) to run on customer's closed environments made it out of a 30-minute meeting. I've always been curious how this happens. How can a group of people who should know better just ignore or not realize the backlash that will come. There was not a single person who raised a red flag?

shakna 7y ago

> That will likely come in a second phase of the project, and we will figure out opt in/opt out for those scenarios before launching. You might want to pass on that the current opt in/out scenario won't work everywhere either. Safari 12.1 removed the DNT header[0] because it was only being used for fingerprinting. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_notes/safari_12_1_release_notes https://developer.apple.com/documentation/safari_release_not...

cc-d 7y ago
>Safari 12.1 removed the DNT header[0] because it was only being used for fingerprinting. In retrospect, it's hard to imagine this working out any other way.

yellowapple 7y ago

> 5d Scott Williamson We are not adding Pendo or Snowplow JS snippets to self hosted versions yet. That will likely come in a second phase of the project Can it come in an ∞th phase instead?

request136340 7y ago

> I work at GitLab. HN is a good opportunity to reach out, so I will use it: there's some kind of dark pattern employed during this Terms-Of-Service switch. GitLab does not allow to login without accepting the new TOS, which means that I cannot remove my account without accepting the new TOS. I didn't use gitlab that much anyway, but the TOS change just reminded me about the need to close the account... yet "you must accept the TOS to login" does not allow to remove the account. So, accepting the new TOS is kind of forced upon if you want to find your way out (in other words, it's made inconvenient and we-will-drag-our-feet otherwise). Can someone take a look into it? I received two template-responses from email support, but no action. My support request is 136340.

NullPrefix 7y ago
Just send a GDPR data delete request. Let the lawyers deal with it.
- request136340 7y ago
  Since GDPR topic was brought up, let me give some more details; GitLab seem to be well aware of GDPR. This was initial response from GitLab to my request (let's call it Template1): > We understand that you want to completely remove your GitLab.com account. > Due to the complexity of servicing these requests, we're asking our users to > please email gdpr-request at gitlab.com. > Please ensure that you: > - send the email from the address associated with your GitLab.com account > - include the GitLab username you'd like removed I did send an email to that address repeating my request, but shortly after I received this response (let's call it Template2): > We have additional updates with regards to our TOS and Telemetry services > below: > We understand that the recent announcement regarding the update to our Terms of > Service, specifically in regards to Telemetry, can lead to questions you have > about how it impacts your usage of GitLab. > To answer those questions and gather feedback on this recent update, we have > created this Issue with additional clarification. As we firmly believe that > everyone can contribute, we want to assure you all feedback you provide via the > Issue is both welcome and appreciated. > Kindly advise if you would still want us to proceed with this request. I repeated my request, reaffirming that I want to remove and erase my account. In response, they sent "Template1" email again. Edit: to be fair, it's been less than 24 hours since the request, and the repeated template-response from GitLab may have been a hiccup on the support side. But the whole new TOS switch could be handled much better and without dark patterns, i.e. during login, two buttons: [Accept new TOS] [Decline and erase account] However, right now there's simply no option to handle account removal conveniently when I want to decline the new TOS.

ArchReaper 7y ago

Curious to know what planet you guys live on that you think you could put non-opt-in 3rd party telemetry on enterprise-level software and not get this kind of feedback.

jahlove 7y ago

https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/commit/bd6e6180e61916ed11ac3ae3d8c33aaea8d8e236 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/commit/bd6e6180e61916ed...