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They've gotta support the $2.74B valuation somehow. This is the ultimate fate of all VC-driven end-user businesses, the incentive model puts users well after in

They've gotta support the $2.74B valuation somehow. This is the ultimate fate of all VC-driven end-user businesses, the incentive model puts users well after investors. This problem is why I bootstrapped my business. https://sourcehut.org/blog/2019-10-23-srht-puts-users-first/ https://sourcehut.org/blog/2019-10-23-srht-puts-users-first/

pmayrgundter 7y ago
Very apropos comment and thanks for your service alternative!
sourcehate 7y ago
And yet, you're already taking Sourcehut's money and using it to pay a developer that you've said won't be doing any direct work for Sourcehut [1]. How in the world can you possibly call it "putting users first" to take users' money and use it to pay someone to do things that don't benefit those users? Seems a lot more like you're using the company money to pay for things you want someone to work on, not your users. How can that be the company's top priority and the first hire? (throwaway account because Drew holds grudges for years when people question him) [1]: https://sourcehut.org/blog/2019-10-15-whats-cooking-october-2019/ https://sourcehut.org/blog/2019-10-15-whats-cooking-october-...
- Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
  Seems this has been vouched out of its shadowban, so I can reply now. I'm extremely proud to be sponsoring Simon's open source work, and I'm looking forward to sponsoring others. I don't intend to turn SourceHut into an Uber-esque business where a veritable army of developers is sitting around and doing nothing. Most SourceHut users who have been keeping abreast of my plans have known that I wanted to re-invest the profits in open source, and this is how I've chosen to do it. This does benefit SourceHut users, by enriching the open source community in a way no other company is doing. >(throwaway account because Drew holds grudges for years when people question him) I don't know where this came from, but it's not really appropriate. It seems more likely that you have a grude with me.
  - grudgesarereal 7y ago
    >>(throwaway account because Drew holds grudges for years when people question him) >I don't know where this came from, but it's not really appropriate. It seems more likely that you have a grude with me. Reality: you've treated many people harshly over the years for disagreements, questioning, or what have you. There's a reason a few people come out of the nooks with anon accounts to speak up about this.
    - Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
      If you have a grudge then we should really just address it properly rather than bring it up in passive agressive comments in unrelated threads. You can email me at sir@cmpwn.com to discuss it in private or ~sircmpwn/public-inbox@lists.sr.ht if you want to discuss it in public.
bostik 7y ago
[warning: biased, cynical and opinionated content ahead] To me this whole debacle feels like a forced error. Gitlab needs to find a way to profitability - fine, I am very much in favour. But I can't shake the feeling that somewhere, someone, has made the mental association that "more user tracking == more money". It's worked for Google and Facebook, and it looks to be working for -vomit- modern infosec industry, where ever more aggressive end-user surveillance seems to be the easiest way to get two or even three bites of the apple. And that is why this whole thing feels like a re-enactment of a South Park episode: 1. Get more user data 2. ??? 3. Profit! Because from what I have read so far in this thread and the early linked issue, it does feel like shoehorning invasive user tracking has been a foregone conclusion and figuring out a justification has come second.
- jefurii 7y ago
  Looks like it was forced on the devs by the CFO https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#note_203849107 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...
- jahlove 7y ago
  > Gitlab needs to find a way to profitability It's so much more than that. They need a way to justify their $2.75B valuation, and to keep going up. Profitability is a walk in the park in comparison.
vpEfljFL 7y ago
It's quite absurd to refer to VC-driven enterprises like that considering the resource it's written on.
- Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
  Do you mean to imply that VC-driven enterprises cannot be criticised on Hacker News because it's a YCombinator-operated forum? That's ridiculous, the mods go to great lengths to keep their bias away from their work here. That you can criticise Venture Capitalism on Hacker News is part of why I come here in the first place.
  - vpEfljFL 7y ago
    I do agree with you completely and HN is an awesome platform which I solely use as my main portal to the Internet even to not tech related things (to search for a training routine as an example). It's hard to trust VC backed enterprises nowadays because even if founder is nice it is pretty challenging to go against investors. It's not asways a bad thing because it creates many opportunities for us, small/solo companies, when we can exist to provice stellar services for our customers.

pmayrgundter 7y ago

Very apropos comment and thanks for your service alternative!

sourcehate 7y ago

And yet, you're already taking Sourcehut's money and using it to pay a developer that you've said won't be doing any direct work for Sourcehut [1]. How in the world can you possibly call it "putting users first" to take users' money and use it to pay someone to do things that don't benefit those users? Seems a lot more like you're using the company money to pay for things you want someone to work on, not your users. How can that be the company's top priority and the first hire? (throwaway account because Drew holds grudges for years when people question him) [1]: https://sourcehut.org/blog/2019-10-15-whats-cooking-october-2019/ https://sourcehut.org/blog/2019-10-15-whats-cooking-october-...

Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
Seems this has been vouched out of its shadowban, so I can reply now. I'm extremely proud to be sponsoring Simon's open source work, and I'm looking forward to sponsoring others. I don't intend to turn SourceHut into an Uber-esque business where a veritable army of developers is sitting around and doing nothing. Most SourceHut users who have been keeping abreast of my plans have known that I wanted to re-invest the profits in open source, and this is how I've chosen to do it. This does benefit SourceHut users, by enriching the open source community in a way no other company is doing. >(throwaway account because Drew holds grudges for years when people question him) I don't know where this came from, but it's not really appropriate. It seems more likely that you have a grude with me.
- grudgesarereal 7y ago
  >>(throwaway account because Drew holds grudges for years when people question him) >I don't know where this came from, but it's not really appropriate. It seems more likely that you have a grude with me. Reality: you've treated many people harshly over the years for disagreements, questioning, or what have you. There's a reason a few people come out of the nooks with anon accounts to speak up about this.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
    If you have a grudge then we should really just address it properly rather than bring it up in passive agressive comments in unrelated threads. You can email me at sir@cmpwn.com to discuss it in private or ~sircmpwn/public-inbox@lists.sr.ht if you want to discuss it in public.

bostik 7y ago

[warning: biased, cynical and opinionated content ahead] To me this whole debacle feels like a forced error. Gitlab needs to find a way to profitability - fine, I am very much in favour. But I can't shake the feeling that somewhere, someone, has made the mental association that "more user tracking == more money". It's worked for Google and Facebook, and it looks to be working for -vomit- modern infosec industry, where ever more aggressive end-user surveillance seems to be the easiest way to get two or even three bites of the apple. And that is why this whole thing feels like a re-enactment of a South Park episode: 1. Get more user data 2. ??? 3. Profit! Because from what I have read so far in this thread and the early linked issue, it does feel like shoehorning invasive user tracking has been a foregone conclusion and figuring out a justification has come second.

jefurii 7y ago
Looks like it was forced on the devs by the CFO https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#note_203849107 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...
jahlove 7y ago
> Gitlab needs to find a way to profitability It's so much more than that. They need a way to justify their $2.75B valuation, and to keep going up. Profitability is a walk in the park in comparison.

vpEfljFL 7y ago

It's quite absurd to refer to VC-driven enterprises like that considering the resource it's written on.

Sir_Cmpwn 7y ago
Do you mean to imply that VC-driven enterprises cannot be criticised on Hacker News because it's a YCombinator-operated forum? That's ridiculous, the mods go to great lengths to keep their bias away from their work here. That you can criticise Venture Capitalism on Hacker News is part of why I come here in the first place.
- vpEfljFL 7y ago
  I do agree with you completely and HN is an awesome platform which I solely use as my main portal to the Internet even to not tech related things (to search for a training routine as an example). It's hard to trust VC backed enterprises nowadays because even if founder is nice it is pretty challenging to go against investors. It's not asways a bad thing because it creates many opportunities for us, small/solo companies, when we can exist to provice stellar services for our customers.