10 ms·

> Storage is not part of the CPU. It kind of is. People often call the box with the motherboard, etc. the CPU.[1][2] That's how the basic parts of a computer w

by jolmg 7y ago

> Storage is not part of the CPU. It kind of is. People often call the box with the motherboard, etc. the CPU.[1][2] That's how the basic parts of a computer were taught to me too when I was a kid. The basic parts of a computer are a "CPU", a "Monitor", a "Keyboard", and a "Mouse". Some time later, when I was taught the parts of a "CPU", it was a "Processor", a "Hard Drive", a "Case", etc. I suppose not everyone used the same nomenclature everywhere. It still seems like a standard hasn't been reached. Around where I'm at, people call that thinking box the "CPU", and right now, when looking for diagrams, I see some call it the "Tower", the "Case", the "System Unit", the "Computer", etc. [1] https://i2.wp.com/www.informationq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Basic-parts-of-a-Computer.jpg?resize=1047%2C559 https://i2.wp.com/www.informationq.com/wp-content/uploads/20... [2] https://ecdn.teacherspayteachers.com/thumbitem/Parts-of-a-Computer-Worksheets-Including-Laptop-Diagram-1740668-1453433324/original-1740668-1.jpg https://ecdn.teacherspayteachers.com/thumbitem/Parts-of-a-Co... EDIT: Are the downvotes because people don't believe this is how parts of the computer were taught in some places before the internet became more popular? It makes sense to me that this is the reason why main storage being inside the CPU made it into dictionaries. To me, "CPU" is an ambiguous term. It could either mean the whole case with the electronics inside, or it could be the main Processor in the motherboard.

psanford 7y ago
If you asked me what the "basic parts of a computer are" my first intuition is to answer with the von Neumann architecture. I would not expect the general public to have that answer, but I would expect people with CS backgrounds and the companies building the machines that ken referenced in the article to think in terms of von Neumann.
- jolmg 7y ago
  Well, when I was taught "the basic parts of a computer", it was in a class that was teaching how to use a computer (how to type, what files are, different storage mediums, the different plugs, how to use the GUI, etc.). I was like 8 years old or so. I learned about von Neumann many years later.
  - psanford 7y ago
    The article is specifically talking about how the phrase "special register groups" has been picked up and included in the definition of a CPU in computer architecture text books over the past 60 years. Its clearly not trying to make any sort of statement about how we teach computers to elementary school children.
    - jolmg 7y ago
      At least to me it's not inconceivable that somewhere along the line of people writing definitions basing themselves on other definitions they see, that someone saw that people defined CPUs as including main storage and although it may or may not have seemed weird to them, they might have included it in their own definition, thereby mixing both meanings of CPU.
  - bableka 7y ago
    von Neumann is advanced, not sure an 8-year-old can comprehend all of it...
qubex 7y ago
That’s very, very lax terminology at best... but here’s an upvote to show there’s no hard feelings. :)
skissane 7y ago
Back in the 1950s and 1960s, where a single computer was often composed of multiple big cabinets, the word "CPU" was used to refer to the CPU cabinet. (Often, you'd have the CPU in one cabinet, core memory in another, one or more IO controllers in additional cabinets, yet further cabinets for tape drives and hard disks, etc.) So this usage of calling the main chassis the "CPU" is actually very old. On the one hand, people who use it tend not to be very computer literate (since everyone nowadays who knows anything about computers reserves the term "CPU" for a specific integrated circuit inside that case, not the case itself.) But, their usage I'd argue derives from what used to be the usage of the computer literate, decades ago. It was only in the 1970s that a CPU started being implemented by a single integrated circuit, as opposed to a group of them; back when the CPU was multiple integrated circuits, calling the box that contained them all the "CPU" made more sense, especially when the computer itself was spread across multiple boxes. The computer industry moved on, the terminology of the computer illiterate didn't.
- jolmg 7y ago
  > people who use it tend not to be very computer literate (since everyone nowadays who knows anything about computers reserves the term "CPU" for a specific integrated circuit inside that case, not the case itself.) Indeed, that meaning is mostly used by people that know how to use a computer but have no idea what's in the box. EDIT: I found a Radio Shack catalogue from 1989 that uses the term "CPU" to refer to the main unit with the chassis: https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page/n21 https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page... The bottom left of that page has a computer stand. In the description it says "holds CPU in vertical position". To the right of that, there's a "CPU Security System" that's a set of mounting plates to attach a computer to a desk to avoid theft.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  I don't see it as about computer literacy, but rather a cultural/technological change over time. Up until some point probably post-2000, desktop computers were the norm, which had main chassis connected to peripherals such as keyboards, mice, and monitors. At some point, certainly by 2010, laptops became the majority, which have both input and display integrated. So the referent of CPU, other than the actual chip, no longer existed for most users.
c3534l 7y ago
CPU means the main processor. I would consider any source on the subject wrong if they say otherwise. But CPUs still have main memory and cache, so to say storage isn't part of the CPU is still wrong.
- jolmg 7y ago
  The name actually still kind of makes sense to me. I know that CPU is an apt name for the main processor, but to a regular user that has no idea what's inside the box and only has an understanding of the different components they connect together (monitor, keyboard, etc.) CPU is also an apt name for the whole box. After all, it is the "central processing unit" of the whole computer (counting the monitor, etc.). "Case" refers only to the box itself and not all the inside components; "system unit" is too vague; "computer" means the whole thing including the monitor, keyboard, and mouse; "tower" also isn't apt because, at least in the 90s, it was also common to lay it below the monitor. Tell me, if you have the box disassembled with the hard drive and motherboard outside and the monitor and keyboard nearby, what word would you use to describe the whole device that's the case and its inside components? Imagine you want to ask someone to move it to another table, just the case, hard drives, motherboard, etc. but not the monitor and keyboard. How would you fill in "Could you move the ____ to that table?" I think some around me would say CPU. EDIT: Here, check this out, it's a Radio Shack catalogue from 1989: https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page/n21 https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page... At the bottom left corner of page 42 (page as seen in the image), it says they're selling a "universal computer floor stand". In the description it says, "holds CPU in vertical position". To the right of that, they're selling a "CPU security system" that's basically mounting plates and cord to attach the computer to the desk to prevent it from being stolen.
anoncake 7y ago
That's rather outdated terminology. But you can keep using it if that makes you gay.

by jolmg 7y ago

psanford 7y ago

If you asked me what the "basic parts of a computer are" my first intuition is to answer with the von Neumann architecture. I would not expect the general public to have that answer, but I would expect people with CS backgrounds and the companies building the machines that ken referenced in the article to think in terms of von Neumann.

jolmg 7y ago
Well, when I was taught "the basic parts of a computer", it was in a class that was teaching how to use a computer (how to type, what files are, different storage mediums, the different plugs, how to use the GUI, etc.). I was like 8 years old or so. I learned about von Neumann many years later.
- psanford 7y ago
  The article is specifically talking about how the phrase "special register groups" has been picked up and included in the definition of a CPU in computer architecture text books over the past 60 years. Its clearly not trying to make any sort of statement about how we teach computers to elementary school children.
  - jolmg 7y ago
    At least to me it's not inconceivable that somewhere along the line of people writing definitions basing themselves on other definitions they see, that someone saw that people defined CPUs as including main storage and although it may or may not have seemed weird to them, they might have included it in their own definition, thereby mixing both meanings of CPU.
- bableka 7y ago
  von Neumann is advanced, not sure an 8-year-old can comprehend all of it...

qubex 7y ago

That’s very, very lax terminology at best... but here’s an upvote to show there’s no hard feelings. :)

skissane 7y ago

Back in the 1950s and 1960s, where a single computer was often composed of multiple big cabinets, the word "CPU" was used to refer to the CPU cabinet. (Often, you'd have the CPU in one cabinet, core memory in another, one or more IO controllers in additional cabinets, yet further cabinets for tape drives and hard disks, etc.) So this usage of calling the main chassis the "CPU" is actually very old. On the one hand, people who use it tend not to be very computer literate (since everyone nowadays who knows anything about computers reserves the term "CPU" for a specific integrated circuit inside that case, not the case itself.) But, their usage I'd argue derives from what used to be the usage of the computer literate, decades ago. It was only in the 1970s that a CPU started being implemented by a single integrated circuit, as opposed to a group of them; back when the CPU was multiple integrated circuits, calling the box that contained them all the "CPU" made more sense, especially when the computer itself was spread across multiple boxes. The computer industry moved on, the terminology of the computer illiterate didn't.

jolmg 7y ago
> people who use it tend not to be very computer literate (since everyone nowadays who knows anything about computers reserves the term "CPU" for a specific integrated circuit inside that case, not the case itself.) Indeed, that meaning is mostly used by people that know how to use a computer but have no idea what's in the box. EDIT: I found a Radio Shack catalogue from 1989 that uses the term "CPU" to refer to the main unit with the chassis: https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page/n21 https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page... The bottom left of that page has a computer stand. In the description it says "holds CPU in vertical position". To the right of that, there's a "CPU Security System" that's a set of mounting plates to attach a computer to a desk to avoid theft.
perl4ever 7y ago
I don't see it as about computer literacy, but rather a cultural/technological change over time. Up until some point probably post-2000, desktop computers were the norm, which had main chassis connected to peripherals such as keyboards, mice, and monitors. At some point, certainly by 2010, laptops became the majority, which have both input and display integrated. So the referent of CPU, other than the actual chip, no longer existed for most users.

c3534l 7y ago

CPU means the main processor. I would consider any source on the subject wrong if they say otherwise. But CPUs still have main memory and cache, so to say storage isn't part of the CPU is still wrong.

jolmg 7y ago
The name actually still kind of makes sense to me. I know that CPU is an apt name for the main processor, but to a regular user that has no idea what's inside the box and only has an understanding of the different components they connect together (monitor, keyboard, etc.) CPU is also an apt name for the whole box. After all, it is the "central processing unit" of the whole computer (counting the monitor, etc.). "Case" refers only to the box itself and not all the inside components; "system unit" is too vague; "computer" means the whole thing including the monitor, keyboard, and mouse; "tower" also isn't apt because, at least in the 90s, it was also common to lay it below the monitor. Tell me, if you have the box disassembled with the hard drive and motherboard outside and the monitor and keyboard nearby, what word would you use to describe the whole device that's the case and its inside components? Imagine you want to ask someone to move it to another table, just the case, hard drives, motherboard, etc. but not the monitor and keyboard. How would you fill in "Could you move the ____ to that table?" I think some around me would say CPU. EDIT: Here, check this out, it's a Radio Shack catalogue from 1989: https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page/n21 https://archive.org/details/tandy-computer-catalog-1989/page... At the bottom left corner of page 42 (page as seen in the image), it says they're selling a "universal computer floor stand". In the description it says, "holds CPU in vertical position". To the right of that, they're selling a "CPU security system" that's basically mounting plates and cord to attach the computer to the desk to prevent it from being stolen.

anoncake 7y ago

That's rather outdated terminology. But you can keep using it if that makes you gay.