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Yes, but the question is how to achieve portability without infringing on others' privacy rights. If I'm on facebook and want to export all my comments, that w

by ysavir 7y ago

Yes, but the question is how to achieve portability without infringing on others' privacy rights. If I'm on facebook and want to export all my comments, that would require exporting all the status updates of the people who's posts I've commented on, which then also includes those contacts, too. There's no such thing as exporting a single node in a network, you need the entire network.

kickscondor 7y ago
You certainly can export a single node - just depends on your expectations. For example, the Indieweb has already done this in a way that I find acceptable. My blog (kickscondor.com) syndicates all the comments to every post (including deeply nested ones.) And it also captures a copy of all posts that I respond to (all the way up the chain going backwards.) This is sufficient for me. No need to export anything - it's already there in my own storage. You could also say that you'd need a snapshot of the entire Internet to provide context - but that's Just unreasonable. I think the a Web itself already has had a 'network effect' larger than that of Facebook or any individual subnetwork.
- ysavir 7y ago
  > My blog (kickscondor.com) syndicates all the comments to every post What does this mean?
  - kickscondor 7y ago
    When someone wants to comment, they post - not on my blog - but on their blog. If their blog supports Webmentions, my blog will get notified and I will 'syndicate' their comment - a copy will get placed on my blog. This way everyone in the conversation had copies of the entire conversation in case one blog goes down. (Does that clear it up at all?)
    - ysavir 7y ago
      It does, and that is _one_ way in which to export a single node--assuming we're all using this Indieweb blog software. But I have heavy doubts that such software will become the norm, or that it will be the expectation of whatever data schema this bill ends up supporting. I appreciate the theory of your approach and how it can be used, and while it does directly respond to the immediate statement I made, I don't think it realistically captures how my statement applies to the broader context, when and if this law becomes implemented.
JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> If I'm on facebook and want to export all my comments, that would require exporting all the status updates of the people who's posts I've commented on The bill [1] is ambiguous on the definition of user data (§ 2(9)). There is latitude with this definition, from rich portability (as you describe) to bare-bones portability (simply metadata, e.g. X commented on Y's post on such and such data). > There's no such thing as exporting a single node in a network, you need the entire network Graphs are divisible. My export need not contain every user in Kazakhstan's data. [1] https://www.scribd.com/document/431507473/GOE19968 https://www.scribd.com/document/431507473/GOE19968
- scarface74 7y ago
  The bill [1] is currently ambiguous.... A bill written by a bunch of clueless lawmakers to legislate technology - there couldn’t possibly be any unintended consequences.
  - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
    > A bill written by a bunch of clueless lawmakers to legislate technology This has been Silicon Valley's party line for why we can't be regulated by governments, and should instead be left to self regulate. While I agree with that for start-ups, it's patently failed with Big Tech.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      And look at what happened when California tried to regulate Uber to force them to treat drivers as employees. Now freelancers in other industries who don’t want to be employees are having to jump through hoops.
      - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
        > look at what happened when California tried to regulate Uber to force them to treat drivers as employees I agree, it's a mess. But the solution isn't to bar all regulation ex ante as illegitimate.

by ysavir 7y ago

kickscondor 7y ago

You certainly can export a single node - just depends on your expectations. For example, the Indieweb has already done this in a way that I find acceptable. My blog (kickscondor.com) syndicates all the comments to every post (including deeply nested ones.) And it also captures a copy of all posts that I respond to (all the way up the chain going backwards.) This is sufficient for me. No need to export anything - it's already there in my own storage. You could also say that you'd need a snapshot of the entire Internet to provide context - but that's Just unreasonable. I think the a Web itself already has had a 'network effect' larger than that of Facebook or any individual subnetwork.

ysavir 7y ago
> My blog (kickscondor.com) syndicates all the comments to every post What does this mean?
- kickscondor 7y ago
  When someone wants to comment, they post - not on my blog - but on their blog. If their blog supports Webmentions, my blog will get notified and I will 'syndicate' their comment - a copy will get placed on my blog. This way everyone in the conversation had copies of the entire conversation in case one blog goes down. (Does that clear it up at all?)
  - ysavir 7y ago
    It does, and that is _one_ way in which to export a single node--assuming we're all using this Indieweb blog software. But I have heavy doubts that such software will become the norm, or that it will be the expectation of whatever data schema this bill ends up supporting. I appreciate the theory of your approach and how it can be used, and while it does directly respond to the immediate statement I made, I don't think it realistically captures how my statement applies to the broader context, when and if this law becomes implemented.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> If I'm on facebook and want to export all my comments, that would require exporting all the status updates of the people who's posts I've commented on The bill [1] is ambiguous on the definition of user data (§ 2(9)). There is latitude with this definition, from rich portability (as you describe) to bare-bones portability (simply metadata, e.g. X commented on Y's post on such and such data). > There's no such thing as exporting a single node in a network, you need the entire network Graphs are divisible. My export need not contain every user in Kazakhstan's data. [1] https://www.scribd.com/document/431507473/GOE19968 https://www.scribd.com/document/431507473/GOE19968

scarface74 7y ago
The bill [1] is currently ambiguous.... A bill written by a bunch of clueless lawmakers to legislate technology - there couldn’t possibly be any unintended consequences.
- JumpCrisscross 7y ago
  > A bill written by a bunch of clueless lawmakers to legislate technology This has been Silicon Valley's party line for why we can't be regulated by governments, and should instead be left to self regulate. While I agree with that for start-ups, it's patently failed with Big Tech.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    And look at what happened when California tried to regulate Uber to force them to treat drivers as employees. Now freelancers in other industries who don’t want to be employees are having to jump through hoops.
    - JumpCrisscross 7y ago
      > look at what happened when California tried to regulate Uber to force them to treat drivers as employees I agree, it's a mess. But the solution isn't to bar all regulation ex ante as illegitimate.