7 ms·

Yesterday a coworker was frustrated with his computers, and said something insightful: "When software gets past a certain age it just gets bad." He was referrin

Yesterday a coworker was frustrated with his computers, and said something insightful: "When software gets past a certain age it just gets bad." He was referring primarily to Android and Windows (10) but it applies to every piece of software that suffers from feature creep. If it's a cash cow they have to keep stuffing new things in and periodically repainting it to make it look new again. Around 10.9, MacOS reached a "feature complete" state. Now things are just being changed for change's sake. Running older Android versions reminds me of how fast and slick they were, and how many features have since have just added complexity in meaningless ways (they've changed the "silent" mode roughly 4 times since 2011?) and introduced "features" nobody asked for. Half the features end up getting removed later. As an example of good software that doesn't perpetually introduce bugs, take venerable *nix Desktop Environment XFCE. (Screenshots here https://xfce.org/about/screenshots https://xfce.org/about/screenshots) It has a release every few years and doesn't add anything major or change in breaking ways - it works, and works the same as it always has for decades. (edit) I had another thought - since Apple the company is now so large and most of their resources are focused on churning out new products year after year, it could be that they've stretched themselves too thin and the people that could uphold the quality standard of the systems either a) aren't as much of a hardass as Jobs was and don't have as high standards, or b) just don't use the products on a regular basis. I bet you there's someone working at Apple right now getting paid >$250k/yr that hasn't touched macOS in over a year.

ianlevesque 7y ago
> Running older Android versions reminds me of how fast and slick they were Those are some rose-tinted glasses for sure. Android lacked basic performance and stability for years after release.
- elagost 7y ago
  I apologize for not being clear; I was referring primarily to 4.4 "KitKat". Still have a tablet that I run with that on it (offline) to read ebooks. Quite nice. You are correct though - pre-4.0 was pretty rough.
  - ianlevesque 7y ago
    Yeah agreed. I am torn presently between the feature creep and the fact that new phones are so physically faster computationally that Android can finally scroll smoothly.
    - 29083011397778 7y ago
      Even my 2017 KeyOne with 2GB RAM and a slower class SoC runs fine; the only caveat is I've disabled GApps. I realize this is a large ask for some, but I think it's important to point out that Android itself isn't terribly heavy, Google's tracking is.
  - Lammy 7y ago
    I'm quite partial to 4.2.2 Jelly Bean, the last release with the "Phablet" UI layouts meant for the Nexus 7. I had a Galaxy Note Ⅱ at the time, and it was easy to get that UI by changing the screen DPI setting or using a custom build like Paranoid Android: https://i.imgur.com/O8lSsXn.png https://i.imgur.com/O8lSsXn.png
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Android hasn't gotten slower. Android apps have had feature creep and the lack of native code makes them slow. A good example is the Google Maps app which has consistently gotten slower every year because the devs clearly only test it on flagship phones with gobs of RAM.
  - Jyaif 7y ago
    Android has been getting slower because of security enhancement like disk encryption and aslr, and probably mitigation for Spectre/meltdown.
lisper 7y ago
I'm reading this on a late-2013 MBP retina running 10.9.5 and not only does it do everything I need it to do, "upgrading" from here would actually cause me to lose essential functionality (which is why I haven't done it). I have a stash of replacement MBPs to replace this one with when it finally does die, but I don't know what I'm going to do when they're all gone because AFAICT everything Apple is producing nowadays is shit and everything else on the market is vastly worse. Sometimes contemplating the future (or even the present) causes me to sink into deep existential despair because I remember what the world was like when there was a company that made computers that Just Worked.
- elagost 7y ago
  Although older software usually does what we need it to do, I question the wisdom of running an Internet-connected machine with software that no longer receives security fixes. If the various Linuxes might give you what you need, I encourage you to check them out. Debian with XFCE and Xubuntu's LTS are both very good options that stay stable and secure. Out of curiosity, what would you lose functionality-wise by upgrading? What's your mission-critical workflow?
  - lisper 7y ago
    > If the various Linuxes might give you what you need Oh, how I wish! The problem is it's not just me. I'm the IT department for my wife as well, and there is no way she's going to switch to Linux. For on thing, she's a writer, and she uses MS Word. That is not going to change. :-( Also, what to do for a mobile device? They all suck big fat honking weenies AFAICT. We both have iPhone SE's which, AFAICT, are the least bad of all the available options. We both tried Android once and it was a disaster.
    - criddell 7y ago
      > she uses MS Word I've always wondered about people that are able to switch platforms. I've always thought that you pick the operating system that best runs the software you want to use. So it makes sense that a Word user wouldn't switch to Linux. > We both tried Android once and it was a disaster. Why was it a disaster? Were the apps you needed not there? I use iOS (on an iPad) and Android (on a Pixel phone) and they both seem good enough.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jkoberg 7y ago
You'd be amazed at home much time and how many resources useless UI animations take up. Go turn "Animation Scale" to 0 in the android developer settings page, and it will feel like your phone is 10x faster.
- nwallin 7y ago
  Holy shitballs. This is amazing. Why isn't this the default? Maybe I can wait till the pixel 5... oh.
- curryst 7y ago
  This really is incredible, it totally fixes my frustration at waiting for animations to finish and occasionally stuttering as it tries to uselessly slide things off the screen. Btw, I also have an option under Accessibility that says "Remove animations" that doesn't require having Developer Mode enabled. Seems like an easier shortcut if you only want to turn off these animations.
mostlysimilar 7y ago
Is it possible to do both? To improve our software over time while not letting the quality slip?
safgasCVS 7y ago
Great point and it makes me think of software that hasn’t changed because it does exactly what it’s supposed to and no more. Like right now I am learning awk and sed using a book that was published in the late 80s and every single command and program listed in that book still run today. Other than old Unix command line tools I can’t think of any other programs that fit your description
tolmasky 7y ago
macOS' problem ironically enough I think is that it is not a cash cow. Apple stopped charging for it with 10.9, but of course more importantly, the Mac itself does not generate a ton of cash for Apple (which was always the true source of revenue). Not a day goes by that I don't imagine features I wish macOS did for me. The desktop OS is not "mature" or "complete", its just not a big enough piece of the pie with comparison to iPhone for Apple to invest time in it. If you were to gift the Mac/macOS business to some random startup, there is a good chance it would see huge stability and evolution. Unfortunately, the business is coupled to a company that happens to make a different product that makes it way more money. If anything, Apple has been removing "features" from macOS at great pain to its users -- and I don't mean 32 bit or this security stuff, I mean the fact that they don't focus almost at all on the surrounding ecosystem. Apple used to continue investing in software for macOS like Final Cut Pro and Aperture, things that kept them invested in the OS itself. They very clearly do not want to be in that space anymore, so its weird to think that the OS is somehow "done" and just "spinning its wheels". For a good non-open source example, look at Photoshop: it's been around for almost 30 years and people still think its worth paying for and are generally happy with the updates they get. Perhaps some are unhappy with the pricing model, but I actually see lots of people that are very happy with that too (myself included). macOS only seems stale because it hasn't changed meaningfully in so many years, not because it can't. With regard to the bugginess: yes, I think it has everything to do with the fact that they are now trying to ship a new version of iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS, AND macOS every year on the dot.
- elagost 7y ago
  Quite insightful - thanks for writing this. I'd love to see evidence otherwise, but I do think that desktop interfaces are pretty "done" at this point - you can have a couple different paradigms and layouts, but usually it's the same thing - either a Windows 7-style taskbar/start menu layout, or a macOS dock/statusbar layout. There's not been much change in the desktop space in a long time. Features here, animations there, but desktops are relatively stagnant. The cool thing is that you can extend them with other programs if you want, but mostly they're just a way to launch programs. Not a lot of messing around is needed if you ask me.
- akelly 7y ago
paulddraper 7y ago
Windows XP reach a good state. Windows 7 was the pinnacle.
- faissaloo 7y ago
  XP is still one of my favourite operating systems of all time.
woah 7y ago
How would they not touch macOS?

ianlevesque 7y ago

> Running older Android versions reminds me of how fast and slick they were Those are some rose-tinted glasses for sure. Android lacked basic performance and stability for years after release.

elagost 7y ago
I apologize for not being clear; I was referring primarily to 4.4 "KitKat". Still have a tablet that I run with that on it (offline) to read ebooks. Quite nice. You are correct though - pre-4.0 was pretty rough.
- ianlevesque 7y ago
  Yeah agreed. I am torn presently between the feature creep and the fact that new phones are so physically faster computationally that Android can finally scroll smoothly.
  - 29083011397778 7y ago
    Even my 2017 KeyOne with 2GB RAM and a slower class SoC runs fine; the only caveat is I've disabled GApps. I realize this is a large ask for some, but I think it's important to point out that Android itself isn't terribly heavy, Google's tracking is.
- Lammy 7y ago
  I'm quite partial to 4.2.2 Jelly Bean, the last release with the "Phablet" UI layouts meant for the Nexus 7. I had a Galaxy Note Ⅱ at the time, and it was easy to get that UI by changing the screen DPI setting or using a custom build like Paranoid Android: https://i.imgur.com/O8lSsXn.png https://i.imgur.com/O8lSsXn.png
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Android hasn't gotten slower. Android apps have had feature creep and the lack of native code makes them slow. A good example is the Google Maps app which has consistently gotten slower every year because the devs clearly only test it on flagship phones with gobs of RAM.
- Jyaif 7y ago
  Android has been getting slower because of security enhancement like disk encryption and aslr, and probably mitigation for Spectre/meltdown.

lisper 7y ago

I'm reading this on a late-2013 MBP retina running 10.9.5 and not only does it do everything I need it to do, "upgrading" from here would actually cause me to lose essential functionality (which is why I haven't done it). I have a stash of replacement MBPs to replace this one with when it finally does die, but I don't know what I'm going to do when they're all gone because AFAICT everything Apple is producing nowadays is shit and everything else on the market is vastly worse. Sometimes contemplating the future (or even the present) causes me to sink into deep existential despair because I remember what the world was like when there was a company that made computers that Just Worked.

elagost 7y ago
Although older software usually does what we need it to do, I question the wisdom of running an Internet-connected machine with software that no longer receives security fixes. If the various Linuxes might give you what you need, I encourage you to check them out. Debian with XFCE and Xubuntu's LTS are both very good options that stay stable and secure. Out of curiosity, what would you lose functionality-wise by upgrading? What's your mission-critical workflow?
- lisper 7y ago
  > If the various Linuxes might give you what you need Oh, how I wish! The problem is it's not just me. I'm the IT department for my wife as well, and there is no way she's going to switch to Linux. For on thing, she's a writer, and she uses MS Word. That is not going to change. :-( Also, what to do for a mobile device? They all suck big fat honking weenies AFAICT. We both have iPhone SE's which, AFAICT, are the least bad of all the available options. We both tried Android once and it was a disaster.
  - criddell 7y ago
    > she uses MS Word I've always wondered about people that are able to switch platforms. I've always thought that you pick the operating system that best runs the software you want to use. So it makes sense that a Word user wouldn't switch to Linux. > We both tried Android once and it was a disaster. Why was it a disaster? Were the apps you needed not there? I use iOS (on an iPad) and Android (on a Pixel phone) and they both seem good enough.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jkoberg 7y ago

You'd be amazed at home much time and how many resources useless UI animations take up. Go turn "Animation Scale" to 0 in the android developer settings page, and it will feel like your phone is 10x faster.

nwallin 7y ago
Holy shitballs. This is amazing. Why isn't this the default? Maybe I can wait till the pixel 5... oh.
curryst 7y ago
This really is incredible, it totally fixes my frustration at waiting for animations to finish and occasionally stuttering as it tries to uselessly slide things off the screen. Btw, I also have an option under Accessibility that says "Remove animations" that doesn't require having Developer Mode enabled. Seems like an easier shortcut if you only want to turn off these animations.

mostlysimilar 7y ago

Is it possible to do both? To improve our software over time while not letting the quality slip?

safgasCVS 7y ago

Great point and it makes me think of software that hasn’t changed because it does exactly what it’s supposed to and no more. Like right now I am learning awk and sed using a book that was published in the late 80s and every single command and program listed in that book still run today. Other than old Unix command line tools I can’t think of any other programs that fit your description

tolmasky 7y ago

macOS' problem ironically enough I think is that it is not a cash cow. Apple stopped charging for it with 10.9, but of course more importantly, the Mac itself does not generate a ton of cash for Apple (which was always the true source of revenue). Not a day goes by that I don't imagine features I wish macOS did for me. The desktop OS is not "mature" or "complete", its just not a big enough piece of the pie with comparison to iPhone for Apple to invest time in it. If you were to gift the Mac/macOS business to some random startup, there is a good chance it would see huge stability and evolution. Unfortunately, the business is coupled to a company that happens to make a different product that makes it way more money. If anything, Apple has been removing "features" from macOS at great pain to its users -- and I don't mean 32 bit or this security stuff, I mean the fact that they don't focus almost at all on the surrounding ecosystem. Apple used to continue investing in software for macOS like Final Cut Pro and Aperture, things that kept them invested in the OS itself. They very clearly do not want to be in that space anymore, so its weird to think that the OS is somehow "done" and just "spinning its wheels". For a good non-open source example, look at Photoshop: it's been around for almost 30 years and people still think its worth paying for and are generally happy with the updates they get. Perhaps some are unhappy with the pricing model, but I actually see lots of people that are very happy with that too (myself included). macOS only seems stale because it hasn't changed meaningfully in so many years, not because it can't. With regard to the bugginess: yes, I think it has everything to do with the fact that they are now trying to ship a new version of iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, watchOS, AND macOS every year on the dot.

elagost 7y ago
Quite insightful - thanks for writing this. I'd love to see evidence otherwise, but I do think that desktop interfaces are pretty "done" at this point - you can have a couple different paradigms and layouts, but usually it's the same thing - either a Windows 7-style taskbar/start menu layout, or a macOS dock/statusbar layout. There's not been much change in the desktop space in a long time. Features here, animations there, but desktops are relatively stagnant. The cool thing is that you can extend them with other programs if you want, but mostly they're just a way to launch programs. Not a lot of messing around is needed if you ask me.
akelly 7y ago

paulddraper 7y ago

Windows XP reach a good state. Windows 7 was the pinnacle.

faissaloo 7y ago
XP is still one of my favourite operating systems of all time.

woah 7y ago

How would they not touch macOS?