4 ms·

The intelligence agencies have proven to be vindictive, and also a back-channel arm for straight up partisan politics. It seems like it goes unnoticed when the

by Pigo 7y ago

The intelligence agencies have proven to be vindictive, and also a back-channel arm for straight up partisan politics. It seems like it goes unnoticed when the outcome is something that aligns with a party's goals. I just can't tell if it's fallible people in positions of power, or a real concerted effort. I think a lot of our problems stem from the undermining of our system of checks and balances, and whatever is up with the fourth estate. I'm digressing, but I recall a time when journalists would be roasting public officials over these issues.

dd36 7y ago
Examples of partisan politics by IC?
- DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
  I guess this isn't strictly "partisan," but it is highly political: the FBI tried to destroy Martin Luther King Jr., and even attempted to blackmail him with recordings they had taken.
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    Seriously, I'm amazed how many people are ignorant of this fact. They didn't just blackmail him, they clearly implied that he should commit suicide before recieving the Nobel if he didn't want the tapes released. ("There is only one thing left for you to do. You know what it is.") They never released the tapes, of course, but he did die. Everyone also seems unaware that the King family was awarded $1 in damages from the federal government for the wrongful death of MLK; they contend that the US government assassinated him and used James Earl Ray as a patsy, and while they never got Ray's conviction overturned (despite trying) they did get a separate US court to agree that the government should pay them symbolic damages based on this interpretation of events.
    - dd36 7y ago
      Uh... examples from 50 years ago is not what I was picturing.
      - blotter_paper 7y ago
        Really, "that time the FBI tried to blackmail Martin Luther King into committing suicide" is too far back to count as an example of TLA overreach? We only know about that whole escapade because radicals physically broke into an FBI office and stole evidence of it, this isn't the kind of thing the government willingly admits to us. The CIA destroyed most of the MK-ULTRA documents when they realised Congress was getting ready to ask for them, but we still know that they were drugging unconsenting US citizens with LSD and secretly recording them having sex with hookers (they called it "Operation Midnight Climax") just to see what would happen, but I guess that's old news, too, or maybe it just isn't politcial enough to care about. We probably won't know that they killed Michael Hastings for another couple decades, and then that will be old news, too, so who cares?
- Pigo 7y ago
  Peter Strzok, Lisa Page?
asveikau 7y ago
If it were partisan politics I don't think we would see the continuity that we did between Bush and Obama. I think it was clear and overt during the Bush era that there were some dubious claims thrown around about "we need this to prevent another 9/11", with "this" being vague, broad, varying with the particular speaker. It was disappointing to many when Obama embraced some of these conclusions.
- duxup 7y ago
  Yeah the idea that the intelligence community pushed these stories doesn't hold up. If you look into the folks who were in the spotlight pushing "we need this to prevent another 9/11" they were mostly former military and some with intelligence connections... but the real connection was their political connections. Many outright stated the information they were provided to go on TV with came from politically associated groups not some secretive internal policy. In fact intelligence groups internally pushed back on some of the claims and political appointees ignored them.
  - jakeogh 7y ago
    FBI Agent Robert Wright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALc-oU3Hqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALc-oU3Hqg
- busterarm 7y ago
  > If it were partisan politics I don't think we would see the continuity that we did between Bush and Obama. If it weren't partisan politics, you wouldn't be seeing roughly 15 senior officials from the NSA/CIA/FBI leaving the public sector to take jobs at CNN & MSNBC. I'm curious why most people don't find this to be deeply disturbing.
  - hannasanarion 7y ago
    CNN and NBC are not partisan entities, contrary to Republican smears. If they have any faults, it is in how desperately they bend over backwards to maintain the appearance of nonpartisanship amidst bad-faith attacks from the right, to the point that CNN just this week hired an alt-right conspiracy theorist as a full time contributor.

by Pigo 7y ago

dd36 7y ago

Examples of partisan politics by IC?

DiogenesKynikos 7y ago
I guess this isn't strictly "partisan," but it is highly political: the FBI tried to destroy Martin Luther King Jr., and even attempted to blackmail him with recordings they had taken.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  Seriously, I'm amazed how many people are ignorant of this fact. They didn't just blackmail him, they clearly implied that he should commit suicide before recieving the Nobel if he didn't want the tapes released. ("There is only one thing left for you to do. You know what it is.") They never released the tapes, of course, but he did die. Everyone also seems unaware that the King family was awarded $1 in damages from the federal government for the wrongful death of MLK; they contend that the US government assassinated him and used James Earl Ray as a patsy, and while they never got Ray's conviction overturned (despite trying) they did get a separate US court to agree that the government should pay them symbolic damages based on this interpretation of events.
  - dd36 7y ago
    Uh... examples from 50 years ago is not what I was picturing.
    - blotter_paper 7y ago
      Really, "that time the FBI tried to blackmail Martin Luther King into committing suicide" is too far back to count as an example of TLA overreach? We only know about that whole escapade because radicals physically broke into an FBI office and stole evidence of it, this isn't the kind of thing the government willingly admits to us. The CIA destroyed most of the MK-ULTRA documents when they realised Congress was getting ready to ask for them, but we still know that they were drugging unconsenting US citizens with LSD and secretly recording them having sex with hookers (they called it "Operation Midnight Climax") just to see what would happen, but I guess that's old news, too, or maybe it just isn't politcial enough to care about. We probably won't know that they killed Michael Hastings for another couple decades, and then that will be old news, too, so who cares?
Pigo 7y ago
Peter Strzok, Lisa Page?

asveikau 7y ago

If it were partisan politics I don't think we would see the continuity that we did between Bush and Obama. I think it was clear and overt during the Bush era that there were some dubious claims thrown around about "we need this to prevent another 9/11", with "this" being vague, broad, varying with the particular speaker. It was disappointing to many when Obama embraced some of these conclusions.

duxup 7y ago
Yeah the idea that the intelligence community pushed these stories doesn't hold up. If you look into the folks who were in the spotlight pushing "we need this to prevent another 9/11" they were mostly former military and some with intelligence connections... but the real connection was their political connections. Many outright stated the information they were provided to go on TV with came from politically associated groups not some secretive internal policy. In fact intelligence groups internally pushed back on some of the claims and political appointees ignored them.
- jakeogh 7y ago
  FBI Agent Robert Wright: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALc-oU3Hqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vALc-oU3Hqg
busterarm 7y ago
> If it were partisan politics I don't think we would see the continuity that we did between Bush and Obama. If it weren't partisan politics, you wouldn't be seeing roughly 15 senior officials from the NSA/CIA/FBI leaving the public sector to take jobs at CNN & MSNBC. I'm curious why most people don't find this to be deeply disturbing.
- hannasanarion 7y ago
  CNN and NBC are not partisan entities, contrary to Republican smears. If they have any faults, it is in how desperately they bend over backwards to maintain the appearance of nonpartisanship amidst bad-faith attacks from the right, to the point that CNN just this week hired an alt-right conspiracy theorist as a full time contributor.