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So in NL, this is tackled with a tiered classification, in which the lowest tier (<25kph) is a bike, middle tier (25-45kph) is classified scooter (under certain
by brnt 7y ago
So in NL, this is tackled with a tiered classification, in which the lowest tier (<25kph) is a bike, middle tier (25-45kph) is classified scooter (under certain circumstances and in certain cities such as Amsterdam you must use the car lanes) and 45kph and up is indeed a motorcycle, which means helmet+suitable clothing and car-lane only (but not highways).
This is not ideal, as the (fast) electric bike is new, also in NL, and people will misanticipate them (which I've experienced first hand). You're right, mixing speeds is a bad idea. This will improve with better infra (wider cycling paths, bike highways) and getting used to this new vehicle. On the other hand, the problem is similar to the scooter, which also doesn't fit the car or bike class, so perhaps with time a new type of lane must be invented. Some cities/political parties in NL are thinking of lowering the car speed limit from 50 to 30 (in urban area), which will facilitate mixing in scooters and electric bikes with car traffic.
Another important fact is liability: heavier vehicles are more liable (weight makes responsible). So in any accident between, say, car and electric bike, the car will be at fault by default, unless there is proof to the contrary. This leads to more cautious driving.
- openfuture 7y agoIt should be classified by acceleration not velocity. Weight and velocity are also important (potential energy which could cause harm) but acceleration is the right way to sort things into lanes, there can also be an energy constraint for the lane but acceleration is about being able to anticipate the behavior of something so that you can avoid the accident in the first place. Electric bikes can accelerate fast and the user will also not care as much about stopping (and losing hard won inertia) this could invalidate some expectation and cause an accident.
- brnt 7y agoWell, acceleration may be non-linear (bikes accelerate 0-10 faster than anything else, which is why sometimes in NL bikes may wait in front of cars before stoplights[1]). Top-speed and weight are also important factors in whether or not it would be smart to mix. However, this results in a matrix of separated lanes that is impractical ;) Finding a good compromise (such as [1]) I think is a better idea. Lowering car speeds such that we can mix is a good one, as well as the introduction of speed limits on cycling paths [2], which would force certain bikes to slow down. [1] https://gratistheorie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/opgeblazen-fietsopstelstrook.jpg https://gratistheorie.nl/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/opgeblaz... [2] https://www.fietsersbond.nl/nieuws/een-maximum-snelheid-op-het-fietspad-2/ https://www.fietsersbond.nl/nieuws/een-maximum-snelheid-op-h...
- gpm 7y ago> bikes accelerate 0-10 faster than anything else As a cyclist, I don't believe this claim for a second. When a car starts moving at the same time as me, it's faster than me from the start. Which makes sense, it has more horse power per unit mass. Often I do start moving first, because I think I'm less likely to get right hooked if I do so. But that's a result of paying attention and having my for on the "accelerator" waiting to go. (Also maybe a tiny bit of lag for a car to get into gear, but that's not substantial).
- brnt 7y agoWell, it is certainly my personal experience, and the infra design I linked seems to take advantage of it. But, perhaps I am spoiled by more careful car traffic, because it's quite rare that cars would speed into an intersection because they're by default liable in accidents with cyclists, who may enter the intersection with various accelerations. Also, a bike mechanic once blamed my chain wearing out too fast on me accelerating like a crazy motorist.
- kalenx 7y agoThe relevant metric is the torque at low (or 0) RPM, not the (horse) power. I do agree that a good electric car may start faster than a cyclist, however.
- clarry 7y agoDunno, my ICE idles at 900 RPM and I tend to give it a bit of gas as I start going. I don't think my feet could put out anywhere near as much torque.
- jamil7 7y agoI cycled through Rotterdam recently, bikepacking to the UK. I found the scooters in the bikelanes to be massively unsettling. I've cycled all over the place and honestly found riding with the cars to be preferable, at least I'm used to being amongst them.
- brnt 7y agoI agree, as do many cyclists. Recently the city of Amsterdam enacted a law that forces them out of cycling lanes [1]. Like I wrote in another post, scooters and electric bikes don't really fit the usual modes of cycling or motorized (car) traffic, and are something in between. Adding a mode to all infra is however a large undertaking, would add a fourth mode, which is why some want to lower car speed limits in order to facilitate mixing in higher speed bicycles/scooters into car traffic. [1] https://www.amsterdam.nl/snorfiets-rijbaan/ https://www.amsterdam.nl/snorfiets-rijbaan/
- jamil7 7y agoInteresting! thanks for the link.