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The UV issue is a red herring. There are many reasons why people need to be outside and cycling is only one of them. UV is a manageable problem for walkers and

The UV issue is a red herring. There are many reasons why people need to be outside and cycling is only one of them. UV is a manageable problem for walkers and outdoor workers, cyclists are not a special case. I guess that you've never been on a bike on a very hot day. It's much, much more pleasant to be ventilated by your self-created airflow on a bike than it is to to have sweat pouring down your back as you walk around.

missosoup 7y ago
I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions and then end up with heatstroke and skin peeling off from sunburn. The 'self-created airflow' INCREASES the rate at which you gain temperature. Windchill is only 'chill' when the ambient air temperature is lower than your core temp. To cycle on a summer day, you need to slather yourself in SPF-40 sunscreen including underneath clothing, wear SPF clothing, and make sure to be constantly drinking water. And when you get to your destination you're definitely going to need a shower. I'll take public transport over that, thanks. So does the majority of people.
- Fricken 7y ago
  Evaporation can cool things to below ambient air temperature. It's why we sweat.
  - missosoup 7y ago
    The point is at air temps >39c, increasing airflow around you increases apparent temperature. The more wind you experience (or the faster you ride your bike) in those conditions, the more work your body needs to do for maintaining homeostasis via sweating. You will certainly not perceive a >39c wind as a 'cooling' wind in any conditions, and the faster that wind is the hotter it will feel.
    - adrianN 7y ago
      This depends strongly on humidity.
      - missosoup 7y ago
        No it doesn't. The efficiency of sweating depends on rel. humidity. Not what's being discussed here. The fact that increasing airflow will increase the rate at which you heat up (and how much heat your body must shed) if that airflow is hotter than your core body temperature is just physics 101. Why do you think fan-forced ovens have lower cooking times or temperatures in recipes?
        phonypc 7y ago
        The minimum temperature to which you can evaporatively cool something also depends on humidity. If evaporation is still doing anything (i.e. wet-bulb temperature does not exceed body temperature, in this context), increased airflow will absolutely still have a cooling effect.
- dvdkhlng 7y ago
  To counter that: windchill also works at air temperature above body temperature due to evaporative cooling [0], as long as relative humidity does not reach extreme levels. Proper sports clothing (allowing good moisture transport) and sufficient drinking help with that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler#Physical_principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler#Physical_pr...
- quickthrower2 7y ago
  Been in Sydney for a bit. When it’s 40+ the most I can do outside is 5 minutes walking in the shade. It’s not fun. I wouldn’t cycle unless it was electric assisted.
- jakecopp 7y ago
  Aussie Sydneysider cyclist here that commutes every day and in summer on a $70 bike - as long as I have a shower/beach at the end of my commute and a water bottle I'm pretty fine!
- flukus 7y ago
  > I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions Funnily enough I was thinking that about you, because on 40+ days we've got people out riding, overcrowding beaches, walking and some even sunbaking, many will be doing that without shirts on in the open sun and they're not going up in flames. Some poor buggers even have to work outside doing physical labor on such glorious beach days. Personally on days like that I like to go for a quick swim and spend the afternoon with a beer on a bowling green if I can. We've been doing this for generations, my great grandma was doing it before cars, sunscreen and aircon were invented and kids had to walk to school, indigenous people were doing it much longer. We aren't scared of the sun as our skin cancer rates will testify. Of course these days there's people that take the doona off in the morning and enjoy their air conditioned house, run to their air conditioned car to work in their air conditioned office for 8 hours then do it all in reverse and never see the sun. Of course they don't climatise because they're living in a different climate.
fiblye 7y ago
Look up skin cancer rate maps. It’s no joke in Australia. People die and often. And then you have most populated regions in Asia with 40 degree summers with air so humid that taking a deep breath makes you cough. People still ride bikes, but there are days where it’s deadly to do so for long distance commuting. That’s not including typhoon periods where you’re liable to be whacked with debris and die (because work isn’t canceled for any reason).
- jakecopp 7y ago
  Cars kill 65% as many people as skin cancer in Australia. Skin cancer is estimated to kill 1,725 in Australia in 2019 [1]. During 2018 there were 1,135 road deaths [2]. I think we could reduce the number of road deaths far faster than the number of skin cancer deaths would increase. [1]: https://melanoma.canceraustralia.gov.au/statistics https://melanoma.canceraustralia.gov.au/statistics [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i...
  - fiblye 7y ago
    Honestly, that's impressively high. Imagine how much worse it'd be if everyone spent their days walking around in the sun. There'd be more than enough skin cancer to offset the lost road deaths.
    - kaybe 7y ago
      Would shading all (/the majority) of the bike lanes be prohibitively expensive or doable? Encountering a problem should not make us come to a full stop and give up. edit: Or bicycles with roofs, similar to the car solution?
  - missosoup 7y ago
    > Cars kill 65% as many people as skin cancer in Australia. Which would become closer to 18% if the number of individuals exposed to prolonged sun time doubled (e.g. by promoting Cycling). We literally run public awareness TV campaigns telling people to stay out of direct sunlight as much as possible regardless of what protection they're wearing. I don't think you realise it but you're proving the point. Bikes are fine when the weather is favourable, but a lot of the people commenting here just don't grasp the fact that in some parts of the world, unfavourable weather doesn't mean you might sweat a bit, it means that the weather will make you sick and kill you in short order. The same people that dismiss warnings when visiting countries like AU and then leave with their skin peeling off.

missosoup 7y ago

I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions and then end up with heatstroke and skin peeling off from sunburn. The 'self-created airflow' INCREASES the rate at which you gain temperature. Windchill is only 'chill' when the ambient air temperature is lower than your core temp. To cycle on a summer day, you need to slather yourself in SPF-40 sunscreen including underneath clothing, wear SPF clothing, and make sure to be constantly drinking water. And when you get to your destination you're definitely going to need a shower. I'll take public transport over that, thanks. So does the majority of people.

Fricken 7y ago
Evaporation can cool things to below ambient air temperature. It's why we sweat.
- missosoup 7y ago
  The point is at air temps >39c, increasing airflow around you increases apparent temperature. The more wind you experience (or the faster you ride your bike) in those conditions, the more work your body needs to do for maintaining homeostasis via sweating. You will certainly not perceive a >39c wind as a 'cooling' wind in any conditions, and the faster that wind is the hotter it will feel.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    This depends strongly on humidity.
    - missosoup 7y ago
      No it doesn't. The efficiency of sweating depends on rel. humidity. Not what's being discussed here. The fact that increasing airflow will increase the rate at which you heat up (and how much heat your body must shed) if that airflow is hotter than your core body temperature is just physics 101. Why do you think fan-forced ovens have lower cooking times or temperatures in recipes?
      - phonypc 7y ago
        The minimum temperature to which you can evaporatively cool something also depends on humidity. If evaporation is still doing anything (i.e. wet-bulb temperature does not exceed body temperature, in this context), increased airflow will absolutely still have a cooling effect.
dvdkhlng 7y ago
To counter that: windchill also works at air temperature above body temperature due to evaporative cooling [0], as long as relative humidity does not reach extreme levels. Proper sports clothing (allowing good moisture transport) and sufficient drinking help with that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler#Physical_principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler#Physical_pr...
quickthrower2 7y ago
Been in Sydney for a bit. When it’s 40+ the most I can do outside is 5 minutes walking in the shade. It’s not fun. I wouldn’t cycle unless it was electric assisted.
jakecopp 7y ago
Aussie Sydneysider cyclist here that commutes every day and in summer on a $70 bike - as long as I have a shower/beach at the end of my commute and a water bottle I'm pretty fine!
flukus 7y ago
> I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions Funnily enough I was thinking that about you, because on 40+ days we've got people out riding, overcrowding beaches, walking and some even sunbaking, many will be doing that without shirts on in the open sun and they're not going up in flames. Some poor buggers even have to work outside doing physical labor on such glorious beach days. Personally on days like that I like to go for a quick swim and spend the afternoon with a beer on a bowling green if I can. We've been doing this for generations, my great grandma was doing it before cars, sunscreen and aircon were invented and kids had to walk to school, indigenous people were doing it much longer. We aren't scared of the sun as our skin cancer rates will testify. Of course these days there's people that take the doona off in the morning and enjoy their air conditioned house, run to their air conditioned car to work in their air conditioned office for 8 hours then do it all in reverse and never see the sun. Of course they don't climatise because they're living in a different climate.

fiblye 7y ago

Look up skin cancer rate maps. It’s no joke in Australia. People die and often. And then you have most populated regions in Asia with 40 degree summers with air so humid that taking a deep breath makes you cough. People still ride bikes, but there are days where it’s deadly to do so for long distance commuting. That’s not including typhoon periods where you’re liable to be whacked with debris and die (because work isn’t canceled for any reason).

jakecopp 7y ago
Cars kill 65% as many people as skin cancer in Australia. Skin cancer is estimated to kill 1,725 in Australia in 2019 [1]. During 2018 there were 1,135 road deaths [2]. I think we could reduce the number of road deaths far faster than the number of skin cancer deaths would increase. [1]: https://melanoma.canceraustralia.gov.au/statistics https://melanoma.canceraustralia.gov.au/statistics [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_Australia_by_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_i...
- fiblye 7y ago
  Honestly, that's impressively high. Imagine how much worse it'd be if everyone spent their days walking around in the sun. There'd be more than enough skin cancer to offset the lost road deaths.
  - kaybe 7y ago
    Would shading all (/the majority) of the bike lanes be prohibitively expensive or doable? Encountering a problem should not make us come to a full stop and give up. edit: Or bicycles with roofs, similar to the car solution?
- missosoup 7y ago
  > Cars kill 65% as many people as skin cancer in Australia. Which would become closer to 18% if the number of individuals exposed to prolonged sun time doubled (e.g. by promoting Cycling). We literally run public awareness TV campaigns telling people to stay out of direct sunlight as much as possible regardless of what protection they're wearing. I don't think you realise it but you're proving the point. Bikes are fine when the weather is favourable, but a lot of the people commenting here just don't grasp the fact that in some parts of the world, unfavourable weather doesn't mean you might sweat a bit, it means that the weather will make you sick and kill you in short order. The same people that dismiss warnings when visiting countries like AU and then leave with their skin peeling off.