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I don't think the post should be flagged. They're asking genuine questions, not making harmful points. Without healthy communication and the curiosity to lear

I don't think the post should be flagged. They're asking genuine questions, not making harmful points. Without healthy communication and the curiosity to learn we don't grow. Anyways, >the idea that introducing people that look different magically automatically leads to better performing teams. It's a misunderstanding. It's not the skin color, it's diverse views increase creativity, and the tech industry is mostly problem solving, which is a creative act. So, for example, hiring someone from South Africa, despite them being white, can give more perspective and more ideas. Likewise, hiring someone from NYC if you're in the Bay Area can have that effect as well. It has nothing to do with skin color. >women are paid less than men for the same work. If this were the case, companies would - because they could do an equivalent job to a man for less money - simply hire all women workforces which due to their lower wage bill would outcompete and destroy companies that employed men. Yet - again somewhat inconveniently! - the real world refuses to match the theory. It's such a complex issue. Here is an example statistic that helps explain a piece of the picture: In their mid 30s, 44% of woman leave the tech industry. One reason why females are being paid less overall is because they're leaving higher paying jobs, due to harmful behavior. There is not a lot of choice. There are other complex issues too. It's harder for a female to get an upper management position at a company, short of starting the company themselves. It's a boys club. And for those who start a company, sometimes their company is restricted from doing business with other companies due to their sex. Usually they're "not being taken seriously". There is another side too. There are jobs that are harder for men to get. These jobs don't pay very well. There is so much more I can say, but if there is any take away here is that not all problems are simple and not all problems should be treated like they're simple. Some are multifaceted beasts and the more you look into them the more you start seeing nested problems within them.

hiram112 7y ago
> In their mid 30s, 44% of woman leave the tech industry. There couldn't be something else going on in women's 30s that contributes to them leaving the tech industry. Are they fleeing to other industries? If not, then this claim is absolutely ridiculous, and you know it.
- proverbialbunny 7y ago
  They are fleeing to other industries, but the numbers are hard to get data on. This, in part, because some leave the work force for years and then come back into another industry. Anywhere from 20 to 25% are immediately going to other industries. It's an absurd amount.
belorn 7y ago
The reason that flame war topics tend to become reiterative is that they tend to follow the same path. Someone bring up the argument that "introducing people that look different magically automatically leads to better performing teams". Someone counter with "it's diverse views increase creativity". The naturally reply is then: No organization that promotes diversity care about diversity in views. One one care if an employee is nudist as long they follow the dress code, and if they don't they get fired. The wast majority of diversity seeking companies do not care about economic background. Universities do not want equal outcome in terms of political diversity in professors. > One reason why females are being paid less overall is because they're leaving higher paying jobs, due to harmful behavior ... It's a boys club ... "not being taken seriously" Which I always respond by saying that in Sweden about 85% of both women and men work in a gender segregated work place. Men leave the same rate female dominated industries as women leave male dominated industries. The same "leaky" pipe concept that people use to describe the tech industry is used in the teaching profession, with men leaving at a significant higher rate in all stages. By the age of 50 almost all men has quit the profession by either changing profession or moving to a more male dominated sector like after-school activities. Reading the research into that you can almost substitute papers from the tech industry and just cross over male and write female. "not being taken seriously"? Checked. Toxic environment? Checked. Sexual harassment? Checked. Bullying? Checked. There is a yearly survey here in Sweden over work safety, and last year the profession with highest sexual harassment and bullying rate for a minority gender was nursing, switching place with construction which went from being #1 to #2. There was a few news articles that noted the change. Then we have the question of pay differences, the complete lack of census on how it should be calculated, employee retention, society reaction to choosing a low vs high paying job, and more.

hiram112 7y ago

> In their mid 30s, 44% of woman leave the tech industry. There couldn't be something else going on in women's 30s that contributes to them leaving the tech industry. Are they fleeing to other industries? If not, then this claim is absolutely ridiculous, and you know it.

proverbialbunny 7y ago
They are fleeing to other industries, but the numbers are hard to get data on. This, in part, because some leave the work force for years and then come back into another industry. Anywhere from 20 to 25% are immediately going to other industries. It's an absurd amount.

belorn 7y ago

The reason that flame war topics tend to become reiterative is that they tend to follow the same path. Someone bring up the argument that "introducing people that look different magically automatically leads to better performing teams". Someone counter with "it's diverse views increase creativity". The naturally reply is then: No organization that promotes diversity care about diversity in views. One one care if an employee is nudist as long they follow the dress code, and if they don't they get fired. The wast majority of diversity seeking companies do not care about economic background. Universities do not want equal outcome in terms of political diversity in professors. > One reason why females are being paid less overall is because they're leaving higher paying jobs, due to harmful behavior ... It's a boys club ... "not being taken seriously" Which I always respond by saying that in Sweden about 85% of both women and men work in a gender segregated work place. Men leave the same rate female dominated industries as women leave male dominated industries. The same "leaky" pipe concept that people use to describe the tech industry is used in the teaching profession, with men leaving at a significant higher rate in all stages. By the age of 50 almost all men has quit the profession by either changing profession or moving to a more male dominated sector like after-school activities. Reading the research into that you can almost substitute papers from the tech industry and just cross over male and write female. "not being taken seriously"? Checked. Toxic environment? Checked. Sexual harassment? Checked. Bullying? Checked. There is a yearly survey here in Sweden over work safety, and last year the profession with highest sexual harassment and bullying rate for a minority gender was nursing, switching place with construction which went from being #1 to #2. There was a few news articles that noted the change. Then we have the question of pay differences, the complete lack of census on how it should be calculated, employee retention, society reaction to choosing a low vs high paying job, and more.