7 ms·

A 5/8" x 8' copper grounding rod is $14 at Home Depot; 3\4 x 10 is $33. I'm very confused on how the extra $100 would meaningfully affect the project in either

by ademup 7y ago

A 5/8" x 8' copper grounding rod is $14 at Home Depot; 3\4 x 10 is $33. I'm very confused on how the extra $100 would meaningfully affect the project in either time or BOM.

RyJones 7y ago
there's more to it than putting a copper rod in the ground.
mattrp 7y ago
I’ve installed a bunch of these for myself. You always think about what you might be driving the stake through or if you’re going to hit rock... but you do have a point: after the cost of the rods, there’s the cost of the sledgehammer and the ground cable to wire back to the box. Kind of hard to see how this one issue caused a great deal of expense...
ggrrhh_ta 7y ago
Giving the contractors a good excuse to rip off an employer they hold hostage...?
bradknowles 7y ago
With respect, this is like saying “but the hard drive on Fry’s discount shelf only costs $100, why is your NVME-over-Fiber SSD storage system so expensive?” Hint: what the consumer can buy over the counter, and what gets used in a professional setting, are frequently two radically different things that may only be tangentially related.
- mlyle 7y ago
  It's the same thing that gets used. Just one little detail-- it has to get driven into the earth before use.
- tomku 7y ago
  With respect, what you're saying is absolute nonsense in the context of ground rods. They're hunks of metal clad in copper and driven into the ground with a sledgehammer. They're so simple that there's literally no part of a modern PC that's analogous. The ones you can buy from Home Depot for $15 are identical to the ones I buy from a professional electrical contracting supplier for $15 - they come off the same factory lines from the same manufacturer. There are other components used in contracting that have a bit more product segmentation, but the whole "frequently radically different things that may only be tangentially related" bit is wildly exaggerated. We use the appropriate components for the job, and often that means the same stuff you could buy at Home Depot. You're paying for that knowledge of what's appropriate/necessary and the labor to do the work, not for super-special premium contractor ground rods.
- thrower123 7y ago
  I've yet to see a non-industrial electrician that doesn't pick up most of their stock at Home Depot.
mlyle 7y ago
They're a real bitch to drive into the ground, though, especially if you have clay rocky soils. However, what I think he's saying is that despite blindly complying with this in hopes of a smooth project... the bureaucracy found other ways to make his project expensive, miserable, and slow anyways.
- pkaye 7y ago
  They can be driven down quickly with a demolition hammer/rotary hammer.
  - mlyle 7y ago
    Never underestimate the capacity of my soil to screw things up.. I guarantee you 6' down there will be some nice really strong 50cm rock. :(
shantly 7y ago
> I checked with contractors and the recommendation was "just do it and don't complain or they'll make your project a living nightmare". > So, we did. > They still made the project a nightmare to complete. They added a massive chunk to the overall cost and it took six months longer than it should have taken to complete it. I read it that the excessive grounding requirements were just the beginning of a series of silly and expensive demands, which in aggregate made the project way more expensive. It's that or it took six extra months to install four grounding rods.
- nullc 7y ago
  > It's that or it took six extra months to install four grounding rods. Given some contractors I've dealt with --- I wouldn't be shocked. (or maybe I would be shocked, ... if they were allowed to do electrical work unsupervised. :) )
Spare_account 7y ago
Switching from a forward slash to a back slash between clauses really threw me off. It took me three attempts to correctly parse the second clause (with "3\4" in it)
robomartin 7y ago
> I'm very confused on how the extra $100 would meaningfully affect the project in either time or BOM. reply That one change was the tip of a very large iceberg. They easily added somewhere in the order of $50K+ to the total cost of the system. I could have installed triple the power generation capacity for that money. BTW, I did the bulk of the work on this installation myself (with the help of my kids here and there). No general contractor involved. Had there been a contractor on the job the cost would have been far greater. Before someone jumps in and says "You probably screwed-up the design" (after all, this is HN). I designed the entire system, hired a civil engineering firm to review the design and calculations as well as provide stamped blueprints and calculations (you can't get a permit unless you have this). I also consulted with the same plan checkers throughout the design process (before hiring the civil engineering firm) as well as with my suppliers and buddies who had built similar systems. I only hired the civil engineering firm one the plan checkers told me verbally that all looked good and I should move forward, hire the engineering firm and submit the drawings and calculations for official approval and issuance of permit. I got verbal "All is good" from the structural, electrical, planing/zoning and fire plan checkers. Three days after I submitted everything for approval the very same plan checker who told me all looked good rejected the very same plans he and I had discussed during weekly meetings for about two months. Things got surreal from there. I spoke to multiple contractors from different trades during my many visits to the plan check office. I did not find one who did not have horror stories --multiple horror stories-- about dealing with these people. Anyhow, it's a somewhat distant memory now.
- bradstewart 7y ago
  This, unfortunately, seems to be the norm here in Austin as well. There's an entire industry of building permit "expediters" you almost have to hire to avoid the nonsense. This 3rd party handles all communication with the relevant permitting authorities, and mostly correct plans get approved almost immediately.
  - robomartin 7y ago
    I got lucky in that our inspector was fantastic and very helpful. Had it not been for her help and advise it could have been worse.

by ademup 7y ago

A 5/8" x 8' copper grounding rod is $14 at Home Depot; 3\4 x 10 is $33. I'm very confused on how the extra $100 would meaningfully affect the project in either time or BOM.

RyJones 7y ago

there's more to it than putting a copper rod in the ground.

mattrp 7y ago

I’ve installed a bunch of these for myself. You always think about what you might be driving the stake through or if you’re going to hit rock... but you do have a point: after the cost of the rods, there’s the cost of the sledgehammer and the ground cable to wire back to the box. Kind of hard to see how this one issue caused a great deal of expense...

ggrrhh_ta 7y ago

Giving the contractors a good excuse to rip off an employer they hold hostage...?

bradknowles 7y ago

With respect, this is like saying “but the hard drive on Fry’s discount shelf only costs $100, why is your NVME-over-Fiber SSD storage system so expensive?” Hint: what the consumer can buy over the counter, and what gets used in a professional setting, are frequently two radically different things that may only be tangentially related.

mlyle 7y ago
It's the same thing that gets used. Just one little detail-- it has to get driven into the earth before use.
tomku 7y ago
With respect, what you're saying is absolute nonsense in the context of ground rods. They're hunks of metal clad in copper and driven into the ground with a sledgehammer. They're so simple that there's literally no part of a modern PC that's analogous. The ones you can buy from Home Depot for $15 are identical to the ones I buy from a professional electrical contracting supplier for $15 - they come off the same factory lines from the same manufacturer. There are other components used in contracting that have a bit more product segmentation, but the whole "frequently radically different things that may only be tangentially related" bit is wildly exaggerated. We use the appropriate components for the job, and often that means the same stuff you could buy at Home Depot. You're paying for that knowledge of what's appropriate/necessary and the labor to do the work, not for super-special premium contractor ground rods.
thrower123 7y ago
I've yet to see a non-industrial electrician that doesn't pick up most of their stock at Home Depot.

mlyle 7y ago

They're a real bitch to drive into the ground, though, especially if you have clay rocky soils. However, what I think he's saying is that despite blindly complying with this in hopes of a smooth project... the bureaucracy found other ways to make his project expensive, miserable, and slow anyways.

pkaye 7y ago
They can be driven down quickly with a demolition hammer/rotary hammer.
- mlyle 7y ago
  Never underestimate the capacity of my soil to screw things up.. I guarantee you 6' down there will be some nice really strong 50cm rock. :(

shantly 7y ago

> I checked with contractors and the recommendation was "just do it and don't complain or they'll make your project a living nightmare". > So, we did. > They still made the project a nightmare to complete. They added a massive chunk to the overall cost and it took six months longer than it should have taken to complete it. I read it that the excessive grounding requirements were just the beginning of a series of silly and expensive demands, which in aggregate made the project way more expensive. It's that or it took six extra months to install four grounding rods.

nullc 7y ago
> It's that or it took six extra months to install four grounding rods. Given some contractors I've dealt with --- I wouldn't be shocked. (or maybe I would be shocked, ... if they were allowed to do electrical work unsupervised. :) )

Spare_account 7y ago

Switching from a forward slash to a back slash between clauses really threw me off. It took me three attempts to correctly parse the second clause (with "3\4" in it)

robomartin 7y ago

> I'm very confused on how the extra $100 would meaningfully affect the project in either time or BOM. reply That one change was the tip of a very large iceberg. They easily added somewhere in the order of $50K+ to the total cost of the system. I could have installed triple the power generation capacity for that money. BTW, I did the bulk of the work on this installation myself (with the help of my kids here and there). No general contractor involved. Had there been a contractor on the job the cost would have been far greater. Before someone jumps in and says "You probably screwed-up the design" (after all, this is HN). I designed the entire system, hired a civil engineering firm to review the design and calculations as well as provide stamped blueprints and calculations (you can't get a permit unless you have this). I also consulted with the same plan checkers throughout the design process (before hiring the civil engineering firm) as well as with my suppliers and buddies who had built similar systems. I only hired the civil engineering firm one the plan checkers told me verbally that all looked good and I should move forward, hire the engineering firm and submit the drawings and calculations for official approval and issuance of permit. I got verbal "All is good" from the structural, electrical, planing/zoning and fire plan checkers. Three days after I submitted everything for approval the very same plan checker who told me all looked good rejected the very same plans he and I had discussed during weekly meetings for about two months. Things got surreal from there. I spoke to multiple contractors from different trades during my many visits to the plan check office. I did not find one who did not have horror stories --multiple horror stories-- about dealing with these people. Anyhow, it's a somewhat distant memory now.

bradstewart 7y ago
This, unfortunately, seems to be the norm here in Austin as well. There's an entire industry of building permit "expediters" you almost have to hire to avoid the nonsense. This 3rd party handles all communication with the relevant permitting authorities, and mostly correct plans get approved almost immediately.
- robomartin 7y ago
  I got lucky in that our inspector was fantastic and very helpful. Had it not been for her help and advise it could have been worse.