6 ms·

What is a use case for TechCrunch to have these numbers before they are published by the SEC?

by kovek 7y ago

advisedwang 7y ago
Make a deal with a reporter for early info in exchange for favourable coverage?
- kovek 7y ago
  But that would be insider trading right?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Spivak 7y ago
    Is it insider trading is if you don’t do anything with the information?
    - ga-vu 7y ago
      No. Newswire services receive these kind of press releases in advance all the time. As long as you don't use or share them, you're fine.
    - bdowling 7y ago
      No, it’s not. Someone must make a trade based on non-public info for there to be insider trading.
    - kovek 7y ago
      Alright, then I guess I’ll get into reporting, develop relationships with public companies, get some of these numbers and maybe spill them very carefully to who knows who? There’s always telegram or other for me to share it carefully. No one can find out.
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        Just like anything other crime, if you do it enough to make serious money they'll dedicate resources to going after it. It's the difference between being a dealer and a kingpin and there's not much money to be made being a dealer. Also, odds are the SEC is punching the names of anyone who makes it big day trading into some NSA type database and if they know anyone who would have had the information that link will be followed up on.
        natechols 7y ago
        Yes, the SEC definitely follows up on this, or so I've been told. They're not idiots, and this kind of financial crime is basically super-low-hanging fruit for them (probably because many people make the mistake of assuming they are idiots).
        wgerard 7y ago
        > Yes, the SEC definitely follows up on this Yes, and they're quite adept at it even if you don't think you're leaving a trace. For example: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-55 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-55
        Danieru 7y ago
        Interesting how the middleman got off without punishment. Shows how narrow insider trading can get, which speaks the the programmer tendency to assume law is code. Rather law is interpreted and in this case only two of the three parties fell under the SEC enforcement. That neither is going to jail is also notable, SEC can take money and burn a career but stealing from the market is lots safer than selling drugs.
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        Well, for insider trading, it isn't prohibited by law. It's entirely precedent.
        7y ago
- eli 7y ago
  For coverage, period. It surely isn’t obligated to be positive and Snap isn’t seeing it before publication. Though presumably they wouldn’t share numbers they knew were bad.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  Maybe but it's also just a way to get coverage closer to the actual announcement by letting the reporter write their story ahead of time instead of having to rush to get it done.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
uneekname 7y ago
One of the responses to that tweet stated that they are allowed to share their earnings to reporters early with a non-disclosure agreement[0] [0] https://twitter.com/campuscodi/status/1186768962362568704 https://twitter.com/campuscodi/status/1186768962362568704
- ryanhuff 7y ago
  What could go wrong with that pracfice?
  - ericlewis 7y ago
    Sadly- we can’t disclose.
  - Thorrez 7y ago
    Some hackers could break in and steal the press releases and make $100M selling them to stock traders. In fact they hacked Business Wire, which was in charge of Snap's earnings release today. https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/22/17716622/sec-business-wire-hack-stolen-press-release-fraud-ukraine https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/22/17716622/sec-business-wir... https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191022006082/en/ https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191022006082/en/
    - Traster 7y ago
      Let's say hackers get info that Snap is about to miss earnings. They sell the info to someone who has the money to trade, that person shorts snap, makes a tonne of money but obviously moves the market. The SEC go "Hmmm... why did snap tick down before the earnings were reported, let's go arrest the guys who made that trade".
      - kevingadd 7y ago
        We have recent evidence that they're not very good at doing that anymore. Just look at Equifax and Intel, or the recent stories about how people are most likely playing the entire market based on advanced notice on what Donald Trump's tweets are going to do to the market.
manigandham 7y ago
Publishing of news, the same as the newswires that report earnings. The numbers don't come straight from the company but are usually scheduled on various services for the reporting time. There are plenty of people involved in handling sensitive news of all kinds. It's not really a problem. The risk of insider trading is rather low because it's easy to catch and has harsh penalties.
ohduran 7y ago
Sell them, obviously. The fact that we are even talking about this issue reveals that TechCrunch is eager to show off that they know in advance! It can always be considered as "I got this info from TC, never mind my insider trading"
lordgrenville 7y ago
Presumably the idea is that the reporters can prepare a story on them that's live as soon as the numbers are out - kind of like early screenings of movies for reviewers (who are also sometimes sworn to secrecy!) But seeing how much financial value the information has, maybe it isn't worth the risk.

What is a use case for TechCrunch to have these numbers before they are published by the SEC?

by kovek 7y ago

What is a use case for TechCrunch to have these numbers before they are published by the SEC?

advisedwang 7y ago

Make a deal with a reporter for early info in exchange for favourable coverage?

kovek 7y ago
But that would be insider trading right?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Spivak 7y ago
  Is it insider trading is if you don’t do anything with the information?
  - ga-vu 7y ago
    No. Newswire services receive these kind of press releases in advance all the time. As long as you don't use or share them, you're fine.
  - bdowling 7y ago
    No, it’s not. Someone must make a trade based on non-public info for there to be insider trading.
  - kovek 7y ago
    Alright, then I guess I’ll get into reporting, develop relationships with public companies, get some of these numbers and maybe spill them very carefully to who knows who? There’s always telegram or other for me to share it carefully. No one can find out.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      Just like anything other crime, if you do it enough to make serious money they'll dedicate resources to going after it. It's the difference between being a dealer and a kingpin and there's not much money to be made being a dealer. Also, odds are the SEC is punching the names of anyone who makes it big day trading into some NSA type database and if they know anyone who would have had the information that link will be followed up on.
      - natechols 7y ago
        Yes, the SEC definitely follows up on this, or so I've been told. They're not idiots, and this kind of financial crime is basically super-low-hanging fruit for them (probably because many people make the mistake of assuming they are idiots).
        wgerard 7y ago
        > Yes, the SEC definitely follows up on this Yes, and they're quite adept at it even if you don't think you're leaving a trace. For example: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-55 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2014-55
        Danieru 7y ago
        Interesting how the middleman got off without punishment. Shows how narrow insider trading can get, which speaks the the programmer tendency to assume law is code. Rather law is interpreted and in this case only two of the three parties fell under the SEC enforcement. That neither is going to jail is also notable, SEC can take money and burn a career but stealing from the market is lots safer than selling drugs.
        thaumasiotes 7y ago
        Well, for insider trading, it isn't prohibited by law. It's entirely precedent.
        7y ago
eli 7y ago
For coverage, period. It surely isn’t obligated to be positive and Snap isn’t seeing it before publication. Though presumably they wouldn’t share numbers they knew were bad.
rtkwe 7y ago
Maybe but it's also just a way to get coverage closer to the actual announcement by letting the reporter write their story ahead of time instead of having to rush to get it done.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

uneekname 7y ago

One of the responses to that tweet stated that they are allowed to share their earnings to reporters early with a non-disclosure agreement[0] [0] https://twitter.com/campuscodi/status/1186768962362568704 https://twitter.com/campuscodi/status/1186768962362568704

ryanhuff 7y ago
What could go wrong with that pracfice?
- ericlewis 7y ago
  Sadly- we can’t disclose.
- Thorrez 7y ago
  Some hackers could break in and steal the press releases and make $100M selling them to stock traders. In fact they hacked Business Wire, which was in charge of Snap's earnings release today. https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/22/17716622/sec-business-wire-hack-stolen-press-release-fraud-ukraine https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/22/17716622/sec-business-wir... https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191022006082/en/ https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20191022006082/en/
  - Traster 7y ago
    Let's say hackers get info that Snap is about to miss earnings. They sell the info to someone who has the money to trade, that person shorts snap, makes a tonne of money but obviously moves the market. The SEC go "Hmmm... why did snap tick down before the earnings were reported, let's go arrest the guys who made that trade".
    - kevingadd 7y ago
      We have recent evidence that they're not very good at doing that anymore. Just look at Equifax and Intel, or the recent stories about how people are most likely playing the entire market based on advanced notice on what Donald Trump's tweets are going to do to the market.

manigandham 7y ago

Publishing of news, the same as the newswires that report earnings. The numbers don't come straight from the company but are usually scheduled on various services for the reporting time. There are plenty of people involved in handling sensitive news of all kinds. It's not really a problem. The risk of insider trading is rather low because it's easy to catch and has harsh penalties.

ohduran 7y ago

Sell them, obviously. The fact that we are even talking about this issue reveals that TechCrunch is eager to show off that they know in advance! It can always be considered as "I got this info from TC, never mind my insider trading"

lordgrenville 7y ago

Presumably the idea is that the reporters can prepare a story on them that's live as soon as the numbers are out - kind of like early screenings of movies for reviewers (who are also sometimes sworn to secrecy!) But seeing how much financial value the information has, maybe it isn't worth the risk.