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when a computer is provided to you by an organization, you are usually obligated to take reasonable steps to prevent its misuse and especially to prevent misuse

when a computer is provided to you by an organization, you are usually obligated to take reasonable steps to prevent its misuse and especially to prevent misuse of your credentials. do you really disagree that this is the case?

lovich 7y ago
Does reasonable steps imply "prevent all bad actors in all cases"? Are the users expected to store their machines in fort Knox under armed guard? >if you are doing even the bare minimum to secure the computer, you should not be vulnerable to these kind of pranks from siblings/classmates. This is a statement that reads to me like "implementation is left as an exercise for the reader" type proclamation of how easy it is to secure things. Followed up with a snide remark about children not being ready for the machines. Adults are constantly getting their machines compromised so it really seems like you're just applying a greater standard to people with less experience
- leetcrew 7y ago
  > Does reasonable steps imply "prevent all bad actors in all cases"? of course not, that's an incredibly uncharitable reading of "reasonable", not even an intelligence agency would set such an impossible standard. keep in mind this whole thread started with a comment about "what if your brother googles something bad as a prank?" I'm literally just talking about setting a password that isn't "password" and locking the computer when you walk away from it. this will protect you from attacks by the vast majority of schoolchildren. if a child can't prevent their friends from misusing their school account, they really shouldn't have one. I'm not sure why this is considered snide or controversial at all.
  - munmaek 7y ago
    Because this argument is tone deaf and ignores that kids are, well, kids. Actual adults have terrible security practices. Are you seriously trying to hold kids, who had no choice in the matter, to the same security standards? They’re kids, and likely won’t even understand the gravity of the situation we’re discussing here. These aren’t grown adults working at a company. They’re kids who had laptops foisted upon them.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      even in school, it's actually kind of important that students don't let each other trivially access their accounts. if someone logs into your account and bullies a classmate or copies your work, "I left it unlocked in the cafeteria" can't be an acceptable excuse. > Actual adults have terrible security practices. Are you seriously trying to hold kids, who had no choice in the matter, to the same security standards? They’re kids, and likely won’t even understand the gravity of the situation we’re discussing here. > These aren’t grown adults working at a company. They’re kids who had laptops foisted upon them. this is my point. I'm not holding the kids to any standard; I'm just saying this is a fundamental precondition to being entrusted with an account at an organization. if it's not reasonable to expect this of them, the school should not be issuing computers/accounts. the ultimate responsibility absolutely lies with the school.
      - lovich 7y ago
        I understand your statement after explanation but in your original post you said >if it's unreasonable to expect a child to clear this bar, then they are not yet responsible enough to be entrusted with their own computing device. There is no English interpretation of this that comes across as you saying it's the schools responsibility. It 100% sounds like you put the onus on the children
novok 7y ago
What part about stolen don't you understand? People take reasonable steps to secure their cars, because it's financially painful, but it still happens!
- leetcrew 7y ago
  why are you and others talking about stolen cars and hardware attacks in a thread about schoolchild pranks? I don't think most organizations would hold you at fault if someone stole your computer and used a hardware exploit to gain access to your account. but if you have a blatantly terrible password or just leave the machine unsecured in a cafe, they will probably hold you accountable for whatever happens. I know my employer would.
HarryHirsch 7y ago
Everyone agrees with that, unfortunately if an unfortunate kid leaves their computer unsecured in a school environment they risk a criminal record if a prankster searches Google with the keywords that trigger the system. In a corporate environment that just won't happen. It's madness, but "if you see something, say something". Or something.
nkrisc 7y ago
Remember, we're talking about children, here. It's absurd to hold them to the same high standard as adults.

lovich 7y ago

Does reasonable steps imply "prevent all bad actors in all cases"? Are the users expected to store their machines in fort Knox under armed guard? >if you are doing even the bare minimum to secure the computer, you should not be vulnerable to these kind of pranks from siblings/classmates. This is a statement that reads to me like "implementation is left as an exercise for the reader" type proclamation of how easy it is to secure things. Followed up with a snide remark about children not being ready for the machines. Adults are constantly getting their machines compromised so it really seems like you're just applying a greater standard to people with less experience

leetcrew 7y ago
> Does reasonable steps imply "prevent all bad actors in all cases"? of course not, that's an incredibly uncharitable reading of "reasonable", not even an intelligence agency would set such an impossible standard. keep in mind this whole thread started with a comment about "what if your brother googles something bad as a prank?" I'm literally just talking about setting a password that isn't "password" and locking the computer when you walk away from it. this will protect you from attacks by the vast majority of schoolchildren. if a child can't prevent their friends from misusing their school account, they really shouldn't have one. I'm not sure why this is considered snide or controversial at all.
- munmaek 7y ago
  Because this argument is tone deaf and ignores that kids are, well, kids. Actual adults have terrible security practices. Are you seriously trying to hold kids, who had no choice in the matter, to the same security standards? They’re kids, and likely won’t even understand the gravity of the situation we’re discussing here. These aren’t grown adults working at a company. They’re kids who had laptops foisted upon them.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    even in school, it's actually kind of important that students don't let each other trivially access their accounts. if someone logs into your account and bullies a classmate or copies your work, "I left it unlocked in the cafeteria" can't be an acceptable excuse. > Actual adults have terrible security practices. Are you seriously trying to hold kids, who had no choice in the matter, to the same security standards? They’re kids, and likely won’t even understand the gravity of the situation we’re discussing here. > These aren’t grown adults working at a company. They’re kids who had laptops foisted upon them. this is my point. I'm not holding the kids to any standard; I'm just saying this is a fundamental precondition to being entrusted with an account at an organization. if it's not reasonable to expect this of them, the school should not be issuing computers/accounts. the ultimate responsibility absolutely lies with the school.
    - lovich 7y ago
      I understand your statement after explanation but in your original post you said >if it's unreasonable to expect a child to clear this bar, then they are not yet responsible enough to be entrusted with their own computing device. There is no English interpretation of this that comes across as you saying it's the schools responsibility. It 100% sounds like you put the onus on the children

novok 7y ago

What part about stolen don't you understand? People take reasonable steps to secure their cars, because it's financially painful, but it still happens!

leetcrew 7y ago
why are you and others talking about stolen cars and hardware attacks in a thread about schoolchild pranks? I don't think most organizations would hold you at fault if someone stole your computer and used a hardware exploit to gain access to your account. but if you have a blatantly terrible password or just leave the machine unsecured in a cafe, they will probably hold you accountable for whatever happens. I know my employer would.

HarryHirsch 7y ago

Everyone agrees with that, unfortunately if an unfortunate kid leaves their computer unsecured in a school environment they risk a criminal record if a prankster searches Google with the keywords that trigger the system. In a corporate environment that just won't happen. It's madness, but "if you see something, say something". Or something.

nkrisc 7y ago

Remember, we're talking about children, here. It's absurd to hold them to the same high standard as adults.