4 ms·

It works well for normal people. And these options can be configured from the "under the hood" preferences tab.

by BoppreH 16y ago

drdaeman 16y ago
What's "normal"?
- igravious 16y ago
  "normal" generally means "the way how I think the world should work". Haven't you realized that yet? ;)
MichaelGG 16y ago
You're incorrect on both accounts. First, if my OS and browser preferences are stating English (or any language for that matter), why should the IP come into play? "Normal" people will already be using a localized OS and hence will send an Accept-Language with their preferred language (and perhaps country). Second, while you can go try to navigate the "Under the Hood" section in another language to switch languages, the default Google search uses "{google:baseURL}", which gets hard coded to the localized version someone though you should be forced to use. You actually have to delete the default search in the omnibar and create a new one, manually specifying the Google site you wish to use. There is no quick option to say "no, your silly auto-detection is broken, use the language I'm specifying for UI and search".
- maguay 16y ago
  You're 100% correct here ... That's exactly my experience of downloading Chrome in Thailand. Plus, even if you add Google serch again fresh, it doesn't do instant search from the address bar. It's maddening to say the least!
- BoppreH 16y ago
  Sure, using the OS settings would be the most sane way, but I still see it working well 9 out of 10 times. Could be a lot better, but I don't think it deserves "taking the cake" of the localization-challenged software. And ok, it was my fault for not testing the language option before mentioning it.
  - MichaelGG 16y ago
    Can you clarify when you think it's a good idea to override the user's OS and browser language settings based on IP registration information? (Chrome's wording in the languages settings tab is: "Add the languages you use to read websites, listing in order of preference.") Also, it's not "localization-challenged". I would be more sympathetic to sites in general if there was no Accept-Language header, and if geo-IP lookup was some automatic service baked into every web app library. But no, sites doing this go out of their way to do this. It's as if there's some secret coalition of idiot PMs that think adding IP-based language settings is going to get them a bonus or something.
Hoff 16y ago
Normal? With languages? Normal is an ATM that doesn't know to look on my card or at my account data for my language. At my own bank. Ok, so maybe prompt for that and set that once. But then prompting me every single time I use that same card in the bank's own ATMs? Duh. Normal is an IP-based language selection that fails for non-native speakers, or for regions where the populations where there are multiple languages. Normal is a language chooser box implemented with the available languages listed in English. Normal is US ASCII encodings and sort orders, when you're not running with English selected. Normal is not being able to select your default language and spellings and related grammar checks on the fly, and on a per-document basis. Normal is English text labels within images and icons. More than a few of these systems will barf in creative ways when you toss UTF-8 at them, too. Normal is a scheme a programmer or IT specialist can use to alter a mass deployment implemented as the main user interface, rather than as a design suitable for the end-user first and IT second. Yes, we can do a better normal, too.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  The complexities in designing fully language agnostic software are non-trivial and easily underestimated. I once had an offer from a large hardware manufacturer to bundle some software with a hardware device they made, the deal fell through when I realized the cost of making the software work in all the languages they supported and providing tech support in all those languages would have to be born by us. There simply was no way we could afford it. Another problem is that there is no really good guide (there certainly wasn't at the time, but even today this is sorely lacking) on how to make your software truly multi-lingual in a way that leaves absolutely no loose ends. Even frameworks that are supposedly multi-lingual typically have lots of shortcomings and only work well in the language of the original developers, and maybe one or two others. Try throwing right-to-left fonts at them, the installer is available in only one language (even if the software is multi-lingual), fonts will be missing and so on.

It works well for normal people. And these options can be configured from the "under the hood" preferences tab.

by BoppreH 16y ago

It works well for normal people. And these options can be configured from the "under the hood" preferences tab.

drdaeman 16y ago

What's "normal"?

igravious 16y ago
"normal" generally means "the way how I think the world should work". Haven't you realized that yet? ;)

MichaelGG 16y ago

You're incorrect on both accounts. First, if my OS and browser preferences are stating English (or any language for that matter), why should the IP come into play? "Normal" people will already be using a localized OS and hence will send an Accept-Language with their preferred language (and perhaps country). Second, while you can go try to navigate the "Under the Hood" section in another language to switch languages, the default Google search uses "{google:baseURL}", which gets hard coded to the localized version someone though you should be forced to use. You actually have to delete the default search in the omnibar and create a new one, manually specifying the Google site you wish to use. There is no quick option to say "no, your silly auto-detection is broken, use the language I'm specifying for UI and search".

maguay 16y ago
You're 100% correct here ... That's exactly my experience of downloading Chrome in Thailand. Plus, even if you add Google serch again fresh, it doesn't do instant search from the address bar. It's maddening to say the least!
BoppreH 16y ago
Sure, using the OS settings would be the most sane way, but I still see it working well 9 out of 10 times. Could be a lot better, but I don't think it deserves "taking the cake" of the localization-challenged software. And ok, it was my fault for not testing the language option before mentioning it.
- MichaelGG 16y ago
  Can you clarify when you think it's a good idea to override the user's OS and browser language settings based on IP registration information? (Chrome's wording in the languages settings tab is: "Add the languages you use to read websites, listing in order of preference.") Also, it's not "localization-challenged". I would be more sympathetic to sites in general if there was no Accept-Language header, and if geo-IP lookup was some automatic service baked into every web app library. But no, sites doing this go out of their way to do this. It's as if there's some secret coalition of idiot PMs that think adding IP-based language settings is going to get them a bonus or something.

Hoff 16y ago

Normal? With languages? Normal is an ATM that doesn't know to look on my card or at my account data for my language. At my own bank. Ok, so maybe prompt for that and set that once. But then prompting me every single time I use that same card in the bank's own ATMs? Duh. Normal is an IP-based language selection that fails for non-native speakers, or for regions where the populations where there are multiple languages. Normal is a language chooser box implemented with the available languages listed in English. Normal is US ASCII encodings and sort orders, when you're not running with English selected. Normal is not being able to select your default language and spellings and related grammar checks on the fly, and on a per-document basis. Normal is English text labels within images and icons. More than a few of these systems will barf in creative ways when you toss UTF-8 at them, too. Normal is a scheme a programmer or IT specialist can use to alter a mass deployment implemented as the main user interface, rather than as a design suitable for the end-user first and IT second. Yes, we can do a better normal, too.

jacquesm 16y ago
The complexities in designing fully language agnostic software are non-trivial and easily underestimated. I once had an offer from a large hardware manufacturer to bundle some software with a hardware device they made, the deal fell through when I realized the cost of making the software work in all the languages they supported and providing tech support in all those languages would have to be born by us. There simply was no way we could afford it. Another problem is that there is no really good guide (there certainly wasn't at the time, but even today this is sorely lacking) on how to make your software truly multi-lingual in a way that leaves absolutely no loose ends. Even frameworks that are supposedly multi-lingual typically have lots of shortcomings and only work well in the language of the original developers, and maybe one or two others. Try throwing right-to-left fonts at them, the installer is available in only one language (even if the software is multi-lingual), fonts will be missing and so on.