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I can't understand what people actually have against capitalism. Most of the times when I hear about the problems of my generation much of it comes down to pers

I can't understand what people actually have against capitalism. Most of the times when I hear about the problems of my generation much of it comes down to personal choice. You don't have to go to an expensive college, you don't have to live in the "it" part of town, and you don't have to use your credit card. I've heard so many people complain about the injustices of the world, but at the same time they pay twice as much for rent as me and have 1/3 the income. I have trouble feeling sympathy when you could just make better choices and improve your life without asking the government to come in and take care of you.

standardUser 7y ago
Part of understanding the debate is realizing that virtually no one wants to abandon capitalism. Just like virtually no one wants an actual communist economic system. When people say they are against capitalism, most of the time they are criticizing the particular implementation. All economies (aside from a few tiny exceptions) are "mixed" economies. Outside of genuinely radical circles, most debates focus on changing the mix, sometimes dramatically, but never abandoning it all together.
- jumbopapa 7y ago
  Yes, but that doesn't change my point. They identify an inefficiency and ask the government to "fix" it, but in reality they were the inefficiency themselves. They didn't use their dollars, time, and/or knowledge to reach optimum productivity.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
poidos 7y ago
This opinion leaves out many of the parts of living in modern society that go beyond what we can choose. Just as a quick example, in the US, you don't choose to get sick and fall into medical debt -- but capitalism underpins the health system that induces that medical debt (which is a major contributor to poverty [0].) It seems like you may be confusing the situation of the people in your immediate circle with the larger, systemic problems that are directly related to the accumulation/hoarding of wealth. To your last point -- the majority of people are not able to simply "make better choices." No one chooses to be born into poverty. No one chooses to lose their job. No one chooses to be ill. It is exceedingly harder, year after year, for working-class people to even have the ability to improve their lives meaningfully. [0]: https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/09/12/medicare-for-all-would-cut-poverty-by-over-20-percent/ https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/09/12/medicare-for...
- jumbopapa 7y ago
  > Just as a quick example, in the US, you don't choose to get sick and fall into medical debt Are you sure about that? Per the CDC: up to 40 percent of annual deaths from each of five leading US causes are preventable [1]. These are heart disease, cancer, stroke, respiratory disease, and accidents. The causes include: tobacco use, high blood pressure, obesity, drug and alcohol use, lack of seat belt use, lack of motorcycle helmets, etc. All of those could be prevented due to personal choices. > No one chooses to be born into poverty. No one chooses to lose their job. They very well may choose to keep using that anchor to their past as a justification why they can't make their future brighter. We need to encourage people to improve their lives and not tell them that they can't do something due to past circumstances. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0501-preventable-deaths.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0501-preventable-de...
- sol_remmy2 7y ago
  > you don't choose to get sick and fall into medical debt -- but capitalism underpins the health system that induces that medical debt (which is a major contributor to poverty [0].) The medical system not a free market. It is a hybrid of a state-controlled system and a capitalistic system. Here are some ways of how the system is state-controlled: 1. Hospitals cannot be freely constructed. One must apply for a "certificate of need" to gain permission from the government to build a hospital. This is not a free market. 2. Credentialism is BAD in our medical system. There is only one group of people approved by the government to do prescribe most medications and perform most surgeries - doctors. This is not a free market and greatly increase costs. Doctors earn a median of 300k/year and are the highest paid profession in every state. This is not a free market. 3. Hospitals are legally forced to treat anyone who shows up at their door - even if they can't afford the treatment. This is not a free market. 4. Medicare/Medicaid are forced to nearly buy any drug, regardless of cost, if it could save a live. Even if a drug is 500k/year, the system is forced to buy it. This is not a free market and greatly increases costs.
  - jumbopapa 7y ago
    I enjoyed your point about credentialism. If anyone is looking for a good primer on the issue read the "Occupational Licensure" chapter of Capitalism and Freedom by Milton Friedman.
mayniac 7y ago
This comment is just "millennials are poor because of avocado on toast". There is an untold number of anti-capitalist academics who would take issue with this. Not to mention that equating anti-capitalism with wanting "the government to come in and take care of you" is insulting to communists, anarchists, and other anti-state anti-capitalists.
- jumbopapa 7y ago
  My apologies for not prefacing my comment with a trigger warning for the comrades in our audience.
  - mayniac 7y ago
    Beautiful, doubling down on your stupidity with more tired tropes. How creative of you.
    - dang 7y ago
      Flamewar like this will get you banned here. Would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting?
  - dang 7y ago
    Flamewar like this will get you banned here. Would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting?

standardUser 7y ago

Part of understanding the debate is realizing that virtually no one wants to abandon capitalism. Just like virtually no one wants an actual communist economic system. When people say they are against capitalism, most of the time they are criticizing the particular implementation. All economies (aside from a few tiny exceptions) are "mixed" economies. Outside of genuinely radical circles, most debates focus on changing the mix, sometimes dramatically, but never abandoning it all together.

jumbopapa 7y ago
Yes, but that doesn't change my point. They identify an inefficiency and ask the government to "fix" it, but in reality they were the inefficiency themselves. They didn't use their dollars, time, and/or knowledge to reach optimum productivity.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

poidos 7y ago

This opinion leaves out many of the parts of living in modern society that go beyond what we can choose. Just as a quick example, in the US, you don't choose to get sick and fall into medical debt -- but capitalism underpins the health system that induces that medical debt (which is a major contributor to poverty [0].) It seems like you may be confusing the situation of the people in your immediate circle with the larger, systemic problems that are directly related to the accumulation/hoarding of wealth. To your last point -- the majority of people are not able to simply "make better choices." No one chooses to be born into poverty. No one chooses to lose their job. No one chooses to be ill. It is exceedingly harder, year after year, for working-class people to even have the ability to improve their lives meaningfully. [0]: https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/09/12/medicare-for-all-would-cut-poverty-by-over-20-percent/ https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/09/12/medicare-for...

jumbopapa 7y ago
> Just as a quick example, in the US, you don't choose to get sick and fall into medical debt Are you sure about that? Per the CDC: up to 40 percent of annual deaths from each of five leading US causes are preventable [1]. These are heart disease, cancer, stroke, respiratory disease, and accidents. The causes include: tobacco use, high blood pressure, obesity, drug and alcohol use, lack of seat belt use, lack of motorcycle helmets, etc. All of those could be prevented due to personal choices. > No one chooses to be born into poverty. No one chooses to lose their job. They very well may choose to keep using that anchor to their past as a justification why they can't make their future brighter. We need to encourage people to improve their lives and not tell them that they can't do something due to past circumstances. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0501-preventable-deaths.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0501-preventable-de...
sol_remmy2 7y ago
> you don't choose to get sick and fall into medical debt -- but capitalism underpins the health system that induces that medical debt (which is a major contributor to poverty [0].) The medical system not a free market. It is a hybrid of a state-controlled system and a capitalistic system. Here are some ways of how the system is state-controlled: 1. Hospitals cannot be freely constructed. One must apply for a "certificate of need" to gain permission from the government to build a hospital. This is not a free market. 2. Credentialism is BAD in our medical system. There is only one group of people approved by the government to do prescribe most medications and perform most surgeries - doctors. This is not a free market and greatly increase costs. Doctors earn a median of 300k/year and are the highest paid profession in every state. This is not a free market. 3. Hospitals are legally forced to treat anyone who shows up at their door - even if they can't afford the treatment. This is not a free market. 4. Medicare/Medicaid are forced to nearly buy any drug, regardless of cost, if it could save a live. Even if a drug is 500k/year, the system is forced to buy it. This is not a free market and greatly increases costs.
- jumbopapa 7y ago
  I enjoyed your point about credentialism. If anyone is looking for a good primer on the issue read the "Occupational Licensure" chapter of Capitalism and Freedom by Milton Friedman.

mayniac 7y ago

This comment is just "millennials are poor because of avocado on toast". There is an untold number of anti-capitalist academics who would take issue with this. Not to mention that equating anti-capitalism with wanting "the government to come in and take care of you" is insulting to communists, anarchists, and other anti-state anti-capitalists.

jumbopapa 7y ago
My apologies for not prefacing my comment with a trigger warning for the comrades in our audience.
- mayniac 7y ago
  Beautiful, doubling down on your stupidity with more tired tropes. How creative of you.
  - dang 7y ago
    Flamewar like this will get you banned here. Would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting?
- dang 7y ago
  Flamewar like this will get you banned here. Would you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting?