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What about Black cabs? Most polluting cars have pref treatment
by Masterkraft 7y ago
What about Black cabs? Most polluting cars have pref treatment
- new_realist 7y agoAren’t they going PHEV?
- robk 7y agoNot soon enough
- darrenf 7y agoThe mayor also provides funding towards making black cabs greener: https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/24m-funding-boost-for-black-cabs https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/24m-funding...
- tim333 7y ago>...London’s Taxi Private Hire regulations, which from 1 January 2018, banned new diesel-powered taxis and requires zero-emissions capability. I dare say the old ones will trundle around a while yet. Nothing's prefect.
- andylynch 7y agoThere is already an age limit in place for existing diesel cabs, it is being reduced from 15 to 12 years for earlier models - additionally, TFL will pay up to £10k to delicense caps not built to the latest standards.
- pwagland 7y agoDo you have a source for that? Dropping that age limit from 15 to 12 years would obsolete about 20% of the fleet overnight, since the age spread of the cabs is fairly linear.
- tialaramex 7y agohttps://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/emissions-standards-for-taxis#on-this-page-4 https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/emissions... So it isn't overnight, it's gradual, it will accelerate fleet replacement significantly, but not 20% of the fleet overnight.
- deadbunny 7y agoIIRC they have a mandated max life of 13 years.
- pwagland 7y agoFor up to thirteen years apparently: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/spread_of_ages_of_londons_black https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/spread_of_ages_of_lon... According to that, max age of a black cab is 15 years. On the plus side, given the age distribution shown, then about 10% of the black cabs will already be 0 emission.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 7y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEVC_TX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEVC_TX
- londons_explore 7y agoAs a cyclist, I can tell you that the number of times I see these taxis running on electric only is near zero. Even if they theoretically get 80 miles of electric only range, and can be plugged in, the reality is the drivers force the engines to run to provide cab heating, avoid downtime while charging, and to avoid wear on the battery. My guess is in the real world, even excluding manufacturing, these produce more CO2 per mile than the TX4.
- zeristor 7y agoThat’s one of the known issues for hybrid vehicles, that they’re used as standard fuel vehicles. One of the main reasons to go all electric, maybe there’s some design slight of hand that can be used to increase the time electric power is used.
- londons_explore 7y agoTheoretically, even if never plugged in, they should get much better MPG due to the regenerative braking and the ability to always run the combustion engine at the most efficient revs (which for city driving should ~halve fuel consumption alone). The reality is due to a series of poor design choices, that's rarely the case. Normally due to certifications on the braking system, the regen braking isn't actually hooked up to the brake pedal, so most braking is done with the regular friction brakes. The engine also doesn't normally run at the most efficient RPM because users don't want to hear the sound of the engine revving while they're stationary. Combine that with the fact there are efficiency losses in the battery and electric motors and the added weight of the battery, and you suddenly have a system worse than a regular car.
- stuaxo 7y ago
- isostatic 7y agoBlack Cabs, used by the rich to bypass the traffic. They should be banned from bus lanes at very least.
- easytiger 7y ago> Black Cabs, used by the rich Ugh. I don't know anyone who at some point or other doesn't use cabs.
- CretinDesAlpes 7y agoReally? Myself and most of my friends have never taken a black cab and will never do. We always go for Uber, much cleaner, less expensive and friendly drivers.
- gambiting 7y ago>>less expensive Demonstrably false. I have taken an Uber while my friends jumped in a black cab, both going to the exact same destination(because stupidly you cannot order 2 ubers at the same time), and yes, the "base price" for uber was cheaper, but the final bill was a good few quid higher than the black cab.
- easytiger 7y agoUber was very cheap at the beginning compared with cabs, but it has normalised and indeed can be pretty expensive.
- stuaxo 7y agoUsual business model, undercut and overwhelm, extinguish competition and increase prices. The same model stagecoach used after buses were privatised in the UK.
- ajdlinux 7y agoUber didn't exist 10 years ago, and taxis are still around so clearly Uber hasn't _completely_ wiped them out in that period. I'm mostly an Uber user now, but even I still end up in a taxi on (very rare) occasions at home and more often when travelling and unable to use Uber or another ridesharing app for some reason. There's also a decent population of older people who don't use rideshare apps and depend on the taxi system (I write from the perspective of an Australian, not a Londoner, but I'm guessing it may be similar there).
- Angostura 7y agoNew ones have to be zero-emission
- mattlondon 7y agoThey are actually hybrids - they have a petrol range extender IIUC Also, the old terrible diesels still have lots of time left where they are allowed on the road. Taxis are awful at lining up outside entrances to stations (e.g. kings cross and at pancras) and leave their engines running as they slowly slowly creep forward picking up fares. There are often 20 or 30 diesels basically just idling right outside the main entrance to major stations.
- jeffwass 7y agoMentioned this above but taxis are not allowed to idle their engines waiting at taxi stands. You can kindly ask them to turn off their engine (most do without argument). Or you can also take photographs and report them to the TfL.
- cjrp 7y agoYep, they get about 80 miles from the battery and the rest (~300 miles) using the range-extender.
- stuaxo 7y agoI didn't realise these are hybrids (the exhaust is hidden), any idea how the emissions compare to the old ones. Even as hybrids, I guess the engine can run more efficiently, only runinng as needed and never idling so it must be a win.
- jeffwass 7y agoFYI, you can report taxis idling with their engines running to the TfL. I wrote to them last year after regularly seeing waiting taxis idling their engines in front of my workplace, and they wrote back saying it’s unacceptable, and to email them with location, time, registration, and ideally some photo of the taxi. Although I have seen an improvement in density of taxis idling their engines while waiting, though I now regularly ask normal drivers to turn off their engines when why’re clearly just waiting, often getting angry or hostile reactions. So many drivers aren’t even aware that they shouldn’t run their engine while parked. At least in most London boroughs idling has become illegal with on-the-spot fines. Some boroughs let you report any idling vehicles, eg Westminster : https://www.westminster.gov.uk/report-engine-idling https://www.westminster.gov.uk/report-engine-idling
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- harg 7y agoIt's a disgrace that black cabs are allowed the exemptions they currently receive (bus lanes, ULEZ, congestion charge, waiting on double lines etc). They're an incredibly inefficient form of transport used almost exclusively by tourists and the wealthy and the non-PHEV are some of the most polluting vehicles on the road. The black cab lobby enjoys a disproportionate amount of power when it comes to policy-making on transport. Most Londoners would not miss them if black cabs disappeared overnight but somehow huge allowances are made to ensure they continue to operate the way they do, often at the expense of everyone else.
- sails 7y agoI agree entirely. > bus lanes This exemption is completely ridiculous. I recently asked "What would the outcome be of a total taxi ban in a major city" in a similar thread [0]. An interesting answer was the disabled would struggle. I've since discovered Dial-a-Ride [1], which is good to see and now strengthens my convictions against black cabs in London. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21268807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21268807 [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/dial-a-ride/ https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/dial-a-ride/
- edf13 7y agoFor business use alone - public transport just isn’t up to the task without taxis. I know London we’ll for example and can get around for meetings mostly by tube but sometimes a taxi is a must... foreign visitors mainly rely on taxis for meeting appointments
- stordoff 7y ago> I've since discovered Dial-a-Ride Which does nothing to help visitors. My own trips to London would be significantly more problematic without black cabs.
- chrisseaton 7y ago> used almost exclusively by tourists and the wealthy Huh? A black cab seems like the great equalizer. People of almost all social classes, professions, rich and poor, get the same cabs. In fact, the wealthy are probably the only people not taking cabs I would have thought, as they have their own cars and chauffeurs.
- CretinDesAlpes 7y agoUnfortunately the black cab lobby is too powerful for the mayor to do much in my opinion. The slightest change make them go blocking entire streets with their cabs. That's a shame because I still don't understand why they have the privilege to use bus lanes over normal cars.
- Masterkraft 7y agoI recall them blocking London Bridge in 2018 that is the bridge leading to a major London hospital - unbelievable how this is allowed
- sails 7y agoHow does one "counter" lobby?