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There is a double standard. I doubt that the wife of the US diplomat will ever be extradited to the UK after killing a UK citizens. [1] [1] https://www.reuters

There is a double standard. I doubt that the wife of the US diplomat will ever be extradited to the UK after killing a UK citizens. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-usa-crash-parents/do-the-right-thing-family-of-uk-teen-killed-in-crash-tells-u-s-diplomats-wife-idUSKBN1WT26R https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-usa-crash-parents...

ryanlol 7y ago
The UK-US extradition treaty is already not well regarded in the UK, if the US diplomat does not show up in the UK this is likely to play a big part in how the press treats high profile US extradition cases. It’s definitely an interesting situation.
- marcus_holmes 7y ago
  Further complicated by diplomatic immunity in this case. If it was just an extradition case the US would probably be more willing to play ball.
  - UncleSlacky 7y ago
    Of course, she never had diplomatic immunity - her husband works for the NSA, and was not on the official list of diplomats (those whose credentials are presented and accepted at the Court of St James).
    - matthewheath 7y ago
      You don't need to be on the official list to acquire diplomatic immunity (that would be an easy way for foreign regimes to deny diplomatic immunity). There are chefs, drivers, etc. who have diplomatic immunity but are not on the official list (because that would unreasonably lengthen it). Additionally, the RAF base her husband was stationed at is legally considered an annex of the US Embassy in London, so arguably she did have diplomatic immunity at that point in time. She has since returned to the US which means diplomatic immunity no longer applies to her, but as far as I can see, she was covered by immunity at the time of the incident.
      - UncleSlacky 7y ago
        There's an interesting analysis here which (mostly) agrees with you, with the proviso that we only have Boris Johnson's government's word (for all that's worth!) that she was covered by a form of immunity: https://grberridge.diplomacy.edu/the-sacoolas-affair-diplomatic-immunity-or-special-immunity/ https://grberridge.diplomacy.edu/the-sacoolas-affair-diploma...
        nkurz 7y ago
        Since we are discussing this in the context of a Craig Murray article, here's Craig arguing that Sacoolas clearly lacks diplomatic immunity, and that an RAF Base in no way can be considered an annex of the US Embassy: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/the-foreign-office-must-be-challenged-over-sacoolas-immunity/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/the-foreign-....
        matthewheath 7y ago
        Having read Craig Murray's post mentioned in an adjoining comment — and taken the time to read the relevant legislation, I concede that she's not covered by diplomatic immunity and neither is her husband. I also retract my assertion regarding the annexation of the base — I can't see that it has any legal basis to it other than a political exercise by the Government.
- xtracto 7y ago
  Reminded me of Gary McKinon... i was amazed at how easily the UK gave lip service to the US regarding its own citizens.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    Lauri Love would be a more recent example. Controversial extradition cases do not have a great track record in the UK, I'd almost be surprised if Assange ever gets put on a plane.
pintxo 7y ago
There is always a double standard with extradition of nationals vs foreigners. Most countries will not extradite you if you are a citizen of that country, if you are a foreigner though you are less lucky.
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
That's not a political offense though, that's a hit and run. She could have been extradited for that if she didn't have diplomatic immunity, however, does the US ever extradite someone to a foreign country? I mean the hypothetical scenario of e.g. Bush or Obama being tried for war crimes in The Hague has come up at some point; iirc the statement then was that the US would send in the military to get them out again. And they'd get away with it too - international treaties and/or the UN has little to no power over them.
- maxlybbert 7y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#Effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... : “[The American Service Members Protection Act] authorizes the U.S. president to use ‘all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court.’ This authorization has led the act to be nicknamed the ‘Hague Invasion Act.’” But it doesn’t apply to all Americans. Technically, it only applies to Americans connected to the military, although I would expect similar efforts to apply for several other important people.
thefounder 7y ago
Well is not the first time a US citizen kills an european one in an accident and gets away with it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter
- binarnosp 7y ago
  Not even the second: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1...
- Nicksil 7y ago
  Non-mobile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter

ryanlol 7y ago

The UK-US extradition treaty is already not well regarded in the UK, if the US diplomat does not show up in the UK this is likely to play a big part in how the press treats high profile US extradition cases. It’s definitely an interesting situation.

marcus_holmes 7y ago
Further complicated by diplomatic immunity in this case. If it was just an extradition case the US would probably be more willing to play ball.
- UncleSlacky 7y ago
  Of course, she never had diplomatic immunity - her husband works for the NSA, and was not on the official list of diplomats (those whose credentials are presented and accepted at the Court of St James).
  - matthewheath 7y ago
    You don't need to be on the official list to acquire diplomatic immunity (that would be an easy way for foreign regimes to deny diplomatic immunity). There are chefs, drivers, etc. who have diplomatic immunity but are not on the official list (because that would unreasonably lengthen it). Additionally, the RAF base her husband was stationed at is legally considered an annex of the US Embassy in London, so arguably she did have diplomatic immunity at that point in time. She has since returned to the US which means diplomatic immunity no longer applies to her, but as far as I can see, she was covered by immunity at the time of the incident.
    - UncleSlacky 7y ago
      There's an interesting analysis here which (mostly) agrees with you, with the proviso that we only have Boris Johnson's government's word (for all that's worth!) that she was covered by a form of immunity: https://grberridge.diplomacy.edu/the-sacoolas-affair-diplomatic-immunity-or-special-immunity/ https://grberridge.diplomacy.edu/the-sacoolas-affair-diploma...
      - nkurz 7y ago
        Since we are discussing this in the context of a Craig Murray article, here's Craig arguing that Sacoolas clearly lacks diplomatic immunity, and that an RAF Base in no way can be considered an annex of the US Embassy: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/the-foreign-office-must-be-challenged-over-sacoolas-immunity/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/the-foreign-....
      - matthewheath 7y ago
        Having read Craig Murray's post mentioned in an adjoining comment — and taken the time to read the relevant legislation, I concede that she's not covered by diplomatic immunity and neither is her husband. I also retract my assertion regarding the annexation of the base — I can't see that it has any legal basis to it other than a political exercise by the Government.
xtracto 7y ago
Reminded me of Gary McKinon... i was amazed at how easily the UK gave lip service to the US regarding its own citizens.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  Lauri Love would be a more recent example. Controversial extradition cases do not have a great track record in the UK, I'd almost be surprised if Assange ever gets put on a plane.

pintxo 7y ago

There is always a double standard with extradition of nationals vs foreigners. Most countries will not extradite you if you are a citizen of that country, if you are a foreigner though you are less lucky.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

That's not a political offense though, that's a hit and run. She could have been extradited for that if she didn't have diplomatic immunity, however, does the US ever extradite someone to a foreign country? I mean the hypothetical scenario of e.g. Bush or Obama being tried for war crimes in The Hague has come up at some point; iirc the statement then was that the US would send in the military to get them out again. And they'd get away with it too - international treaties and/or the UN has little to no power over them.

maxlybbert 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#Effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... : “[The American Service Members Protection Act] authorizes the U.S. president to use ‘all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court.’ This authorization has led the act to be nicknamed the ‘Hague Invasion Act.’” But it doesn’t apply to all Americans. Technically, it only applies to Americans connected to the military, although I would expect similar efforts to apply for several other important people.

thefounder 7y ago

Well is not the first time a US citizen kills an european one in an accident and gets away with it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter

binarnosp 7y ago
Not even the second: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1998) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_(1...
Nicksil 7y ago
Non-mobile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teo_Peter